Could what I saw have been "rigged?" Hey, anything is possible, but I would highly doubt it. A lot of salespeople were there yesterday, and some work for dual-franchise dealerships. If they thought anything was fishy, they'd run to Toyota or GM and cry foul, and then Ford is in court. In fact, there was some video of 0-60 race times between Ford and Chevy that GM is contesting, and they wouldn't show us the footage until the matter is cleared up. And this was a private sales meeting for Ford salespeople!

As to your statements about Toyota's reasoning for building a light frame, I rest my case. Fuel economy is nice, but cheapening the frame is NOT the way to go about it in a pickup truck. That's like saying I built a house with a cheap foundation, but I made up for it by putting thicker sheathing on the walls and roof. Yeah, THAT'S a good idea! I believe Toyota (and the rest of the Japanese mfrs.) used this same reasoning back in the 80's when they used all that cheap sheetmetal in their trucks, causing them to rot through in a few years here in the Rust Belt. You won't find much respect for import pickup trucks in my neck of the woods because of this. Believe it or not, the Japanes DO NOT know how to make the perfect vehicle, but they've got great PR departments that have convinced a lot of people of that very myth. As to crash test results, it depends on where you get your data. The Toyota did do well in the IIHS off-set tests (this is where their light frame is an advantage, folding up much more easily than ours), but the Ford (old body-style) was superior in the NHTSA tests.

 

Yeah all I want to know is about the tow off?

 

what i was getting at was the toyota needs the body on it for the frame to work as it was designed..................

as for crash testing, you cant have the maker crash test, but an independent.

 

There is a difference in torsional stiffness and strength. Just becaust the chassis flexes, does not mean it is not strong.

I think a little flex is good in a truck frame. They are generally longer than cars, and have stresses much greater also. IMO if the frame was too stiff, it would crack just like a tall building must flex. Also, I don't see where it really makes that much difference on road. My 92 f150 rode alot smoother than any newer generation 150.
Don't flame me, these are just my opinions.

 

I could not have said it better myself.

This is what I've been trying to explain to people for years. You know why we hear about so many Toyotas with 300,000 miles on them? For one thing, it's great P.R. people doing their job to make sure we hear about it. But for another, it's because Toyotas don't get 3,000 lb. flatbed trailers hooked to them. They don't tow 9,000 lb. pieces of heavy equipment. They don't work hard at construction sites. They don't snowplow highways in the middle of winter. They don't serve as tow trucks and ambulances. I could go on and on, but the point is Toyota trucks don't do work. They weren't designed to do the work that Americans do, and they aren't used for those purposes accordingly. Toyotas are ride around trucks. And that easy life they have means that more of them make it to 300K on the odometer. It does NOT mean that they are better trucks.

If my father traded his truck in on a Toyota, it wouldn't survive a single week on the job.

Sorry, I didn't mean to take over the thread. 1956MarkII just hit the nail right on the head.

 

I've never heard of a 300 straight 6, 460 or an FE that wouldn't go 300,000 miles even if worked hard as long as they were serviced regularly. 300,000 miles isn't a super feat in my opinion. On the subject of frames; there are toyotas out there that have hauled heavy loads and pulled large boats etc... and it is very evident just by looking at their mangled suspensions and smoking tailpipes. My dad traded in his 88 F-150 with a 300 and it had 322,000 miles on it. It still ran pretty good. He took horrible care of it. He is a grain farmer by the way and should have had an F-250 for the work he was doing. Ford has always had great frames on their trucks and they are improving on it.

 

WXboy you had many good points about toyota trucks not being worked very hard and thats why they make it to 300,000+ miles, but then you answered your own question as to why- Toyota hasn't made a full size truck, they've made compact trucks that aren't meant to do any of the things that you listed. They designed they're trucks to be small, agile, strong, and reliable, but you cannot load them with the weight that a 1500 truck can handle. The T100 was an attempt at a middleground and the Tundra is the closest they have come yet. Toyota is the MOST reliable vehicle on the road, and I believe if they wanted to they could make a truck superior to those that the American companies make, they do make commercial vehicles as does Isuzu (who is japanese but makes the Duramax for GM) so I don't think its completely true as to why they are so reliable. No they don't do the hard work of bigger trucks, they weren't meant to, if toyota made one that was meant to, it'd be a better comparison. Compare toyotas trucks to rangers, s10's, and dakota's then see how they stack up.

Oh yeah, and they are tough trucks, they have some of the strongest axles made, thats why so many people love them for "muddin" as they say.

 

Well, I know the comparison was of new trucks, but I had almost 2 tons of gravel in the back of my F-100 this summer, and it didn't even bottom out the spring. Drove it 10 miles like that, hauled it like it wasnt there. Lets see a toyota do that.

For axles, I personally dont believe anything beats the ford 9".

This test, IMO, is just more proof that ford builds the best truck.

 

first off 1956 markII I like the way you think. Second Toyotas arn't as great as people crack them up to be. I four wheel with the likes of them all the time in the Pismo dunes and my 10 grand Ranger 4x4 will out perform the 30 k dollar Toyota turds any day, sorry TRD's. If you think Toyota makes better trucks than thats your opinion but when I look at the Ranger forum and see the miles on your ranger list with trucks going well over 500K and making 300k consistently all I can say are those are great trucks.

 

The thing that I've always thought is that Japan is small and they don't have cars and trucks there like we do(2-5 per family) and they arn't as big. That's why they don't build F-350 sized trucks. They don't need to tow 15000lbs across 3000K where it might be 12000 feet above sea level and -10 in one place and sea level and 110 8 hours away. That's just a thought. I think that the Japanese build great vehicles and we are just starting to use stuff that they had made mainstream a while ago. Like OHC engines. I like OHV but I think OHC is better. I stop rambling now.

Mike

 

I'm not basing what I said on opinion, its a fact that Toyota is the most reliable automaker on the road. But I do agree that rangers are a great truck, so are all fords, but I was just saying that the toyota trucks are decent but aren't made for heavy hauling.

 

OK :/

 

I agree with that the Tundra in its current form won't threaten Ford, but what kind of logic is that for the finisher?

I don't live that far from a big metro area--Houston is 30 miles away--but Ron Carter here has all the GM makes, Ford, Toyota, Chrysler/Jeep all in one. The stealer in Lake Jackson--another 30 miles to my south--has Nissan/Ford/etc together. Get over the idea that only the "domestic" makes are in the country. The stealer knows what sells and they adjust to that. Domestic half-tons are mainly yuppie trucks now. Do they just sell the HD trucks out in the middle of nowhere? You were doing so well....then kept on going.

P.S. The local parking lot sweeper company has a chassis cab Tundra now...Along with the 6.5 TD Cheb and an 80s F350 chassis...

 

Umm it was just a reply no need to get all uptight

 

My wife has a Cousin that makes good money designing and building frames for off road. I asked him if he built frames for Fords and he laughted, he only builds frames for Toyotas and Niissans. Said he'd go broke trying to sell O.R. frames for Fords.