I think alot of us agree that one of the contributing factors of the US's being the target of terrorism, is our involvement with isreal and some say our use of them as a "hired gun". But what are some solutions? Without our aid, isreal would surely be overtaken, and if we stay, it just fuels the fire for Jihad Joe, Jihad Joe, Fighting man from towel to toe. Are there any alternitives?

 

Take Mecca hostage.

 

I firmly believe that if we brought home our entire Middle East presence and left it for them to finalize and deal with, there would be only one result. One Big Isreal. The drastic amount of numbers that the muslim community has would be slaughtered by Isreal's technological power. The technology that we gave them. You never hear that more than a few Isrealis were kiled, whereas many muslims die at each attack. Our presence alone is what is keeping Isreal from sweeping that area clean. Thus, ironically enough,,, we are the ones protecting those that wish to destroy us.

 

And it's worth noting, in many cases technology derived from scientific advances made by Jewish scientists working in the U.S., Germany and other European countries, as well as the former Soviet Union. IMO even without our direct economic support Israel could have maintained a military advantage over its enemies. Indirect financial support has been constant since Israel's inception.

 

Israel's initial military advantage and all technical aspects in whole were provided by the US Military. Arab forces were equipped by the former USSR. The Six-Day War was decided, in Israel's favor, by the virtual destruction of a majority of the Arab aircraft (first line USSR fighters) by US developed and manufactured air to air and air to ground missles. This was another piece of the Cold War where the US and the USSR were able to use their hardware in combat. Israel was in the process of beginning to manufacure US military hardware under license. With enough aid to cover everything.

 

Israel won't mount war on other Countries War is expensive and the Jews are too cheap to spend the bucks..That's why we are in Iraq. Sodamn Insane's missiles could never reach the U.S. but they could reach his enemy, Israel .. Jewish money and influence got Bush to do their dirty work .. Those people don't know any better than to be fighting and killing each other and the U.S. will never be able to stop it . We need to cut off their 12 billion +a year handout and them kill each other until they tire of it or there is no one left ... It's past time we need to mind our own business, admit when we can do no good, and start looking out for our own citizens . I believe my grandchildren will see the collapse of our Constitution if we don't make some drastic changes .. I.M.H.O. ...

 

Thats odd, for some reason I thought without our support, the arabs would overtake the jews. If this is not the case, and they could do fine without our help, why dont we leave if it would divert some hostility?

 

IMHO you should try to refrain from interchanging the "j" word for the Israeli nationals. Just a suggestion, maybe you guys know where I'm coming from. (And NO, i don't have the "instilled guilt complex" over it)

 

Israel, with a technically superior military, has the same problems the US does in mounting a full-scale war against another nation, a lack of occupation troops and an economy that’s collapsing under the weight of three years of war against the Palestinians. Virtually all the troops Israel has engaged in Palestine are reservists and that requirement expands at the same pace as Israel’s appetite for Palestinian land. US invasion and occupation of Iraq has greatly benefited Israel’s aggression, allowing a higher concentration of military assets to be deployed against Palestine. As long as the US Jewish Federation retains its clout in Washington, you aren’t going to see the US abandoning Israel in any manner.

When faced with a military force that crushes your military, Palestine and Iraq have done the same thing countries occupied by Germany did during WWII, armed resistance by the citizenry. I don’t see any end to either situation until the US ends our oil-driven aggression in Arab nations and faces the fact that democracy isn’t a suitable form of government for most mid-east nations due to their belief systems and tribal differences. We appease those Arab nations governed by dictatorships called kings because we get their oil, but if you’re an enemy of Israel and have no oil or won’t bow to our demands, you’re on our you-know-what list.

I’ve posted before on how difficult it is for most Americans, sitting in their recliners watching their favorite propaganda channels, to comprehend why we face problems in spreading democracy at the point of a gun. Just put yourself in the other party’s shoes. How many of us would roll over if invaded and occupied by a foreign power? I agree with Jerrybo66, let’s start taking care of our own country before we collapse.

 

Why? Israel is primarily Jewish, was intentionally re-formed as a Jewish Nation and, like Jews in the US, Jews are proud of their heritage. All the Jews I know, including my wife, refer to each other as Jews. The idea of using the J word being a stigma as a part of their conversation seems to be rooted in those who worship Jesus and don't know any Jews at levels other than a casual business or social context, if at all.

 

I'm happy to say that I think it's great we can have these type of discussions on this forum. I'm back for the politics after a several month FTE break.
I absolutely agree with Jerrybo66, but I also would feel uncomfortable saying "...Jews are too cheap to spend the bucks...That's why we are in Iraq" even though I tend to feel the same way.
On the subject of Jews in the US, I've recently seen census data reporting that they represent 3 odd percent of the population. I was under the impression from mass media that they represented at least 50% of the country I don't think anyone could disagree that they are a well connected and powerful minority.
Anyway thanks for the cool headed intellectual debate. It's great to discuss this stuff without a bunch of counter-productive name calling, race-baiting, etc.

PS maybe you could help me find the answer: why are the Jewish consistently confused as a "race"? Being Catholic, I was told as a kid that it's a religion.

 

Ehhhhh, nevermind.

 

muchtomydelight,

the only accurate part of your last post was that yes you were talking out of your butt.

 

That better, sinjin?

 

muchtomydelight,

This site will answer most of your questions:

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/history.html

The primary reason Jews are considered a race is because being a Jew requires having a Jewish mother, not through conversion, but a natural Jewish mother. If a Jewish man marries a non-Jew, his children are not Jews. Much like many European and Hispanic countries, where the mother's maiden name is retained for purposes of bloodline identification.

Incidentally, Palestine was historically never a sovereign state, even during the Ottoman rule. Arafat is Egyptian by birth. As you can read in the link, Israel was a state during the reign of the Roman Empire. They refused to pay tribute to the Romans, who attacked the original Israel. The Jews who weren't imprisoned and killed scattered around the world until the Brits established the ‘new’ Israel. They do not have their roots in Palestine and stereotyping them due to the features you might be familiar with is like saying all blacks look the same. As with many other races, light complexions and fair hair are common in Jews.

Anyone concerned with the effect Israel is having on world peace should study their history and their place in the histories of the Roman, Ottoman and English Empires for a better understanding of what’s driving that situation. It will also provide you with a better understanding of the countries surrounding Israel and why we’re failing in our attempt to force our way of life upon them. But I guess FOX news provides many people with all the knowledge they need to form opinions.

I am personally against Israel’s land-grabbing aggression using the financial and military support and threat of the US as a club. I think that we’re so egotistical any system of government, belief system or historical evolution not closely aligned with the US is considered ‘bad’ and our administration perpetuates that reasoning to wave the flag and conceal its own agenda of irresponsibility.