well, we 4 wheel because we like to be in nature.....running straight pipes isnt gonna keep what we like around long....but if you think that is helps your performance and mpg go for cutting one cat but 4byford, you dont need to get so defensive

 

If you still pass a sniffer test than good for you go for it.

 

To rbrewrr...the smog pump is not there to "dilute the ppm". The Catalytic converters job is to burn any unburned hydrocarbons leaving the engine via the exhaust system. To burn hydrocarbons (or anything else) you need three things...fuel (the unburned hydrocarbons), heat (provided by the superheated ceramic mesh in the converter), and oxygen (provided by the smog pump). Will the converter burn hydrocarbons without a smog pump? Yes (some cars are designed that way) but not nearly as efficiently as it will with an injection of fresh oxygen at the converter. The smog pump is there for a reason, as are all other components of your emissions system. I am an experienced and competant mechanic, but I am not an automotive design engineer. I give people smarter than me a little credit for knowing what they were doing and why they did it.
My wife is a certified emissions tester, and you would not believe some of the stuff she sees. What makes me angry is the reaction she gets from the people who have screwed with their emissions system and then yell at her when the car will not pass. It makes me even angrier when they yell at her when she refuses to test a car when it will not pass the visual (smog pump removed, cat removed...etc).
If it is there, leave it. If it is broken, fix it. Your grandchildren (and mine) will thank you for it when they do not have to walk down the street wearing a respirator.

P.S. Give the emissions tester a break. It is not their fault your car will not pass emissions (OK, so a few of them are idiots...but only a few).

 

I doubt my vehicles not running cats will have a global effect, although the benefits of the masses not sharing my view are obvious. So I guess that makes me a "free rider", but I am so personally opposed to these laws and restrictions that I can live with that. Again, my vehicles are in a high state of tune and are well maintained and efficient.
Leiguy, you are right, I apologize for my tone and didn't intend to come across so defensive. I just don't want to drink the Koolaid and buy into these ridiculous smog laws which contend that even though the sniffer test passes (clean air is the intent right?), you can't have ONE thing different underhood from stock. To me, that is an unjust and stupid law.
I don't get sniffed, but I am sure that my vehicles are as clean and efficient as a non cat/non smog pump truck can be....

 

It doesn't really matter how much CO2 Mt. St. Helens dumps into the atmosphere, does it? In the first place, volcanic eruptions cannot be controlled. Hydrocarbon emmissions can be controlled. Besides, I'm not an expert, but I don't think CO2 is what we should be worried about -- there emmissions substances that are a lot more dangerous than CO2.

I hate to say this, but shear numbers are the reason why we need to be concerned about emmissions. I don't have exact figures, but I believe the US population has increased by at least 50% since 1960, or maybe even more then that (by the way, nearly ALL of that population increase is said to be due to immigration).

And, I'd be willing to bet that the number of vehicle-miles in the U.S. has much more than doubled since then. So, even if the average emmisions of a brand new vehicle is half of what it was on a 1960 model vehicle, we would still have the same amount of pollution being dumped into the atmosphere today as in 1960 -- and that's assuming that nobody removes the emmissions equipment.

The answer is to stop population growth. If you don't think it will be a problem, just look at the numbers. I'd be willing to bet a substantial sum that the population of the U.S. will double to about 600 million in the next 50 years.

It's sad to know that there are quite a few people out there who think the rules should apply to everyone else, except them.

 

Didn't think I'd ever see this thread resurrected. I meant every word I said in the initial post. And I agree whole-heartedly with SpokaneMan's assesment that its a cryin' shame that there are so many who are just arrogant enough to believe that the rules are made to be broken or should apply only to people OTHER than themselves. Grow up! Take SOME responsibility for the sad state of affiars in this world. I truly wonder how many who have posted since the second page of this thread started have actually READ the original post in its entirety? It boggles the mind to think that so many people really dont' give a $%@#. Hope none of them have children or grandchildren!

 

My 1990 has a 351 with 128K and is completely stock, just as it left the factory (see my gallery). I even spent over $50 to replace the metal and rubber line that goes from the radiator to the throttle body; and when my passenger side exhaust manifold broke, I replaced it with a stock one.

My truck runs perfectly. Just like new. It is crisp from takeoff, with no lags or sags, and it idles so smoothly that if I have the radio turned up sometimes I think that it's not even running.

If I wanted a hot rod (well I do, but can't afford another one. My Harley is my hot rod.) then I would have bought something from the 1960's that does not need inspection or any emissions parts and I can do what I like with it. But as far as my Bronco, I enjoy it being smooth and quiet (no exhaust leaks and a single Dynamax muffler which gives it just a slight rumble at the back but is not noticeable inside).

I do not think that simply stripping all of the emissions stuff from a stock motor would make it run any better, and would give me headaches as far as the the computer, and the "check engine" light, and passing emissions; and could easily run worse. The only thing that I could see adding a few HP is removing the smog pump, which would simply eliminate one of the driven accessories; but if you are that desperate then you can remove the AC and power steering (no f'in way for me, I love my AC and PS !).

 

I bought a bronco in FL, just had it shipped to CA, it faild the smog, some one removed all the smog, now I pay the price. How fun is that!!!!!!!!!

 

Couldnt have said it better myself.

 

To clarify - I am not a fan of beaurocracy by any means. I feel for you guys in California. But the bottom line is that the emissions equipment is not hurting my Bronco in any way, and as long as I am going to run a stock motor, I think that it will run best if I just leave the stuff alone.

It is definitely aggravating when you have to spend money to replace faulty emissions parts, but that is life in the modern world.

I grew up working on old, pre-emissions cars. An intake, an engine, and an exhaust. It was nice and easy. But those days are gone. However, my next vehicle is going to be some clean 1960's pickup truck with a straight 6 and nothing else and it will run forever and ever and I'll never have to even lift the hood...

 

Could someone out there explain to us less informed of how this smog stuff works? I don't have it on my truck and never have. Having said that if I had a truck with it all on, I certainly wouldn't go unhooking it. I would just like to know how it is supposed to make the air cleaner.
tks

 

Let me get this straight,, you dont want anyone to take their smog stuff off thier trucks, but you wanta run a 60's model vehicle? If that 60's model presmog is better on the air then a newer with smog removed, i'd like to see it. Anything efi is gonna be better then carb'ed.

You can get good emmisions from a newer engine without a lot of the crap they put under the hood. Car manufactures just figured out ways to comply with fed regs. Using the engine to pump clean air into the exhaust is not cleaning the air, it is making the air look cleaner.

Manufactures dont want to spend the extra money making every engine more efficient, it is cheaper and easier to add **** to make it look better when tested. If they raised the standards on the engines, with closer tolerances, they could acieve the same results, but it would be costly. Instead mass produce engines, and slap the bandaids on and out the door they go. I have seen many race engines pass emission without any smog, they are just efficient.

OH and the smog you see, is not becuase the vehicles dont have smog crap,, its because there are so many, and people dont walk any where or share rides. You my friend are most likely just as quilty. Buy a hybrid, a big bronco, is an aero brick and is killing the ozone.

 

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I do not keep the emissions equipment on my truck for any altruistic, clean air reasons - I keep it on there because it is required and because my truck came with it and runs perfectly with it on there. I have no reason to remove it, and I believe that if I did start taking it off then the truck might run worse and I'd have problems. In other words - it ain't broke so why fix it. I don't believe that modern day emissions parts hurt performance, in the 70's yes, but today, no.

Where in my posts did I say that anyone else should not take the stuff off? You are putting words in my mouth. I never spoke of anyone but myself. I don't care what anybody else does with their vehicles. The farthest I would go in that vein is to tell someone that they might open up a big can of headaches if they start removing the stuff; but in the end, it's their problem, and all I can do is offer my opinion (for whatever it is worth).

I would like a clean 1960's emissions-free vehicle for my own reasons, because I enjoy simple machines and looking under the hood and seeing nothing but the engine. I don't have the money or much interest in having a brand new $40,000 pickup truck and its associated monthly payments. I can keep an old straight 6 running forever, long past the day that the $40K pickup meets the crusher; and cheaply too. No need for a new truck. All I would want to do is install an AC system on it, and I can get that from Classic Air.

 

I used to have an 82 wagoneer... The smog stuff on that was a PAIN IN THE ****! Reguardless of whether it hurt performance or not, when the engine is already battered, and you're trying to get it running solid, dealing with all the extra crap just isn't logical... The internal combustion engine hasn't changed much in 100 years... granted things have been added, modified, and some new theories have been tested... but at the end of our day, the basics of it are almost the same.

This bothers the guys like me who are trying to really dig in and learn... but have all kinds of laws, regulations, and fancy tests standing in the way. What would Henry Ford have done if the government came around and said "ew, that smells, turn it off and destroy it."? I've wanted to put my own vehicle together much as individuals did in the early 1900s... but how do you explain that you're trying to get license plates for a 2004 Homemade Vehicle? You can't get it inspected... It'll fail unless you understand how all of that mess works... and you can't figure out how all of that mess works without building it yourself (books you say, books don't work in reality. Ever tried using a Chilton? Sure it LOOKS nice, but when you actually get down to it you find yourself going "But what the hell is *that*? And how the hell am I supposed to get THIS out??"

I won't remove the stuff from my 90 Bronco for the same reason as JBronco, but on the wagoneer it would've been gone. If I understood all of it, what it did, and how it did it things might be different. But I really don't have any way to find out as it is. You can call me ignorant if you want, but are you going to come teach me?

 

I was going to mention those earlier. I had an 84 Grand Wagoneer. I really liked it, it had leather seats and plush carpeting and power everything...but have you ever looked under the hood of an early 80's Wagoneer?

I have NEVER seen so many hoses and whatnot on a poor engine. I don't know what it all did, I didn't have the vehicle for that long. Luckily it ran well and I never had to mess with any of that stuff, because there must have been 100 miles of hose under that hood, and sensors, and switches, and tanks and other things.

It makes our Broncos look like they have nothing in comparison. I could hardly even see the engine itself on my Wagoneer, it was covered with all of that stuff!