Folks,

I would like your help in building (virtually) a 5.0L SD-EFI engine for my 54 F100.

My 2nd home is the 48-60 Forum so I know those guys best and am familiar with the guys there that know their stuff ,so ‘fenders, Rage, PCMenten, PJS55, and anyone else that really knows what they’re talking about is encouraged to reply.

Here are the boundaries-

1. A strict but undefined budget limits the extent of what “we” can do.

2. The baseline is a stock 1990 302 (185 H.P. and 270 ft.lbs of torque) with 160,000 miles on it (backed by an AOD). Was running with no evidence of oil smoke. Compression of the cylinders unknown. It will be going into a 54 F100 with AOD and 3.25/3.50 – 1 gears.

3. Intended use is – normal cruising with a bit of a leadfoot at stoplights. 70% of mileage will be highway miles at an normal speed between 55mph and 70 mph.

4. Want reliability, good mileage and good starting.

5. Would like some increase in the H.P. and torque, somewhat for “bragging rights” but to lay a little rubber at the lights and to be able to pass on the highway without having to make an appointment. 20% increase in h.p. and torque (especially the latter) would more than enough.

6. I am staying with the Speed Density EFI due primarily to cost and because I want the benefits of EFI (as well as the high-tech look of it). I have researched the idea of converting to MAF EFI and have decided not to as it would cost me at least $1,000. CDN to do that alone and I hope to get to the desired level of performance mentioned above for the same money. From everything I’ve read, I believe the mods I am proposing below do not require the change over to MAF.

Upon completion of tear down, I see the following required –

Please comment on any of the following and explain yourself if you disagree with any points -

1. Polish and port match the stock heads and get a three angle valve job. Given I will rarely/never see over 3,500 rpm or so, I see no need/benefit to go with GT40 (or other after market) heads. In fact, largely staying under 3,500 rpm, I see them as a complete waste of my money.

2. Mild or stock cam but go to roller lifters and roller-rocker arms with a 1.7 ratio.

3. Chamfer the oil holes (galleys?) on the crank and rod journals to improve oil flow. Paint the galley under the intake with Glyptal paint to improve flow back to the oil pan.

4. Polish the ports and innards on the EFI intake manifold and install a phenolic spacer between the upper and lower halves to help keep the mixture cooler prior to hitting the cylinders.

5. Use a new, but stock volume oil pump with chamfering on the oil in/out galleys.

6. MSD 6 ignition system.

7. 1 & 5/8” shorty headers to clear the “Volare” IFS and improve exhaust breathing and bottom end torque.

8. 2 & Ľ to 2 & ˝ inch free flow exhaust system with free flow mufflers such as Flowmasters. (This truck is emissions exempt so cats are not required).

9. Cold air intake system piped to the behind the grill area or one of the inner fenderwells using a high-perf air filter. (Hey PCMenten – why should I NOT use K&N?)

10. True synthetic oil. (I read somewhere that this is actually good for 5 to 6 h.p. at the rear wheels. Sounded awfully optimistic but the rest of the book sure made the author sound like he knew what he was talking about)

11. Have the crank, rods and pistons balanced.

12. If required, bore it 30 over to clean up the cylinders. Given the mild list of mods above – what type of pistons should I go with? Hyper….., cast, forged, ? I would think the hyper… ones would be sufficeint…

13. ARP engine rebuild bolt kit.

14. Fel Pro gasket set.

15. Oil restrictors in the passages to the heads.

I’ll be using electric fan(s) on the rad rather than a mechanical off the water pump.

Are any of my ideas wrong?

Have I missed any cheap but worthwhile mods?

Will the above get me 20 to 40 h.p. or more importantly 25 to 50 ft. lbs? If not, what do you think it will provide?

Have at it men!

Thanks,

RMF

 

Well with what you have mentioned it appear well thought out and like a very good plan, that should net you the hp and tq your after if not a little more. The only thing I saw that made no sense to me was the 1.7 rockers. Just use your stock 1.6 and go with a comp cam everyone and their grandmother says they are the best cams for ford trucks and they acutally have them no BS. Why not use the 1.7's you may ask well when you order a camshaft the lift has been determined by the assumption you are using 1.6 rockers so if you throw in 1.7 you may end up throwing the balance of the cam off and your lowend torque may decrease. I would bring up piston to valve clearance but I am going to assume your installing this at one time and you will check that anyway, so that doesn't matter. You may wanna upgrade your springs should you go with the extreme energy line. Let comp cam decide the camshaft and you will be happy with it. The cam they recommend will take into account your speed density but should it run a little rougher than you expect you may wanna plan on getting a chip just in case, well a chip might help out anyways. I would opt for a shift kit as well like a towing or rv if you don't want hard shifts. Good luck sounds like you will have a nice dependable motor with guts. Later

As a side note, Torqueking has the smallest 302 comp cam extreme energy cam and he is very satisfied with the result and he appears to know what he's talking about. You would probably get a recommendation for another larger grind so you might would benefit a little more. Just a thought

 

RMF

You can meet your driveability goals with only a couple things from your list. Cam selection will be very important with the SD as you know you can't get away with too much. I would spend my money on quality exhaust and and a little more diff gear. You can go steeper with the AOD without harming MPG. A lot of your list will provide entertainment through the long Canadian winter. True benefit is questionable in your desired RPM range. But it doesn't cost much either so why not? An MSD is probably a waste of money in that RPM range. It's also something you could easily add later. Buy one of their pretty coils and make sure your Duraspark is in good shape.

 

If you want a cruiser with mileage I would say you should look at ported heads and a stock cam for speed density, or heads from a 351.
The stock intake has 2 'dogleg' ports that could be ground out. They're 1 and 5, and 7 needs a touch up.
I used a stock ford truck external pump, and it seems to work fine.

 

terryr
I agree 100% the emissions pump should be ground down.

Another note if you go with the 80's up 351 heads your wasting your money because they are the same as the 302 the same exact design so going with what you have for a reliable yet gutsy street motor will net the same result. However 69 down heads would make a difference if not the gt-40p from the explorer or gt-40 from the mustangs and lightnings. Later

 

Well, Pops, I swore I'd never come back to this forum, but since it's for you - I'll make an exception. I'll be honest with you. I think that you need to rearrange your priorities a little bit for what you are wanting to do here. Being aware of your budget, I see several items in your list that wouldn't hurt a thing and would even be mandatory for a higher horsepower project, but are overkill for your application and are going to give you zero return on your investment.

First of all, the bottom end. You have mentioned several little tweaks to the oiling system. Ford small blocks were blessed with a pretty good oiling system right out of the box and they really don't need any help at all until you start pushing the powerband up high and plan to spend a lot of time there. I'd skip the restrictors altogether and stick to the stock volume pump. The chamfer work isn't a bad idea, though. Also, for no more RPM's than you plan to turn, I think getting it balanced is a waste of your time and dinero. Again, it's one of those things that doesn't really give you any benefit in terms of performance and reliability until you start to spin it hard. It went 160K the first time and a competent build will take it there again. Not to mention the fact that it's pretty expensive. As for the pistons, I promise that you will do just fine with a GOOD QUALITY set of cast slugs. Hypereutectic pistons are tougher, but a well-tuned (read that as "doesn't constantly ping") naturally aspirated engine will have a tough time burning up or breaking a plain vanilla cast piston. At least not doing what you are planning to do with it. They're a lot tougher than you think. I'd say the money you had slated for the hypers is better spent elsewhere. With 160K on the core, chances are that it's going to need bored. Make it worth your money and go .030 over. Displacement, baby. It's about displacement. The weak link in the bottom end is the dinky rod bolts. ARP rod bolts are money well spent for sure.

Comp Cams does have a really nice line of speed density cams that emphasize low RPM torque. Definitely give them a call. The cam is the single biggest thing that will **** off the SD computer if you get it wrong. Don't guess. My opinion on the roller rockers and whatnot is the same as above. You aren't going to ever turn this thing fast enough to get any return on your investment. The exception would be if your core had a roller cam and lifters. Should that be the case, by all means keep them.

Your exhaust plan sounds really good. 2 1/4" should be sufficient. Make sure you get a crossover installed.

MSD makes a really nice ignition system. It beats the hell of of having points anytime and a Duraspark II a lot of the time. But your ignition system would actually have to be bad or malfunctioning in the first place to get any benefit out of it with EFI. Make sure the dizzy is in good shape and get a high quality cap, rotor, wires, and plugs and forget about it. Anybody who tells you they got some ridiculous improvement in their gas mileage or performance by putting an MSD unit on an EFI vehicle either works for the aftermarket or had another problem in the first place.

The engine went 160,000 miles the first go 'round and I almost guarantee that it never saw synthetic oil. It definitely won't hurt a thing, but I sure have a tough time swallowing 5 HP at the wheels. I personally wouldn't risk 6 bucks a quart to find out. And NEVER use synthetic oil until the engine is completely broken in.

And then we have the heads and intake tract. I can't remember whether or not you've got car or truck EFI manifolds but I'm wanting to think that they were off a truck. That's good. The longer runners were designed more with torque in mind than the sets that were on the cars. Definitely get them gasket matched, but I don't know that polishing them will give you enough of a gain to ever notice. The heads are the single biggest point where we disagree. Late model (anything cast after about '74) small block Ford heads suck. Or rather they don't. They don't move a lot of air at any point in the powerband. You will get way more bang for your buck from a set of heads than anything else you can possibly do. The older castings can be ported and polished and would be great on the street if they are done right. The problem with that is that the older heads will give you fits with water port alignment with the EFI intake. Don't ask me how I know. You'd really have to have a set of late heads worked over by a pro to get a decent increase in power. I guarantee that if you add up the money you had planned to spend on a balance job, fancy pistons, roller rockers, port and polish work on the stock heads, and the fancy ignition, you will be getting really, really close to the cost of a set of iron Roush 180's. They will net you much bigger overall perfomance gains and the goofy grin that they'll put on your face the first time you mash the loud pedal will be absolutely priceless. I promise. Even at the relatively low engine speeds you anticipate.

I agree with 'fenders on another point as well. 302's aren't known for having much torque. Definitely invest in a set of 3.50 gears at a minimum. 3.73's wouldn't be a bad idea.

So that's where I'm at. Honestly, you can get the modest power gains you are looking for from the exhaust mods and a good cam all by themselves. You really aren't asking for much. I don't think you're asking for enough. In fact, I'm pretty sure that a 20% increase over those sad, sad stock numbers is going to leave you pretty disappointed. Scrounge, shop, trade, steal, beg, or sell yourself if need be. Go for the heads, Bobby Baby. Go for the heads. Would I steer you wrong?

 

"Go for the heads, Bobby Baby. Go for the heads. Would I steer you wrong?"

That was just pure Genius there Mr Rage. I noticed how you told him not to waste no unecessary money on the bottom end. Later on when he's bucks up, it will make his transition to a larger block easier to swallow. Say something in the 351CI range. Is that what you're thinking too?

RMF

Since you have an AOD, make sure you multiply that rearend ratio by .66 and consider your rear tire diameter. If you pull that 302 out of it's torque band you won't like it, and you won't likely increase your MPG for your efforts. Even a 4.10 gear will effectively be under 3.00 in O.D.

From a seat of the pants perspective. A 10% improvement in torque multiplication with your rear gearing is effectively the same as a torque improvement of 10% from the engine. Not that need and tidy, but roughly the same result. That's half way to your goal for cheap. Good used 9 inch and 8.8 gears can often be found for a song. I know we have the Canada factor but they're out there.

 

WRT heads, its where you want to operate in the rpm spectrum. the aftermarket heads flow a lot more but this moves the torque peak up and if that's not where you are planning on using this beast, then the money is not very well spent here.

MM&FF has been doing the ultimate cylinder head comparison. They have 3 groups, street, street/strip, and full race. They flow tested each head in group 1 (street) and compared to the E7TE's in August issue. They dyno tested these heads including the bone stockers in the September issue on a 030 over 302 with an XE264HR Comp Extreme Energy cam. My 5.0 Mustang has stock 266 duration so this sounds like a decent bottom end cam. The motor was carbed and all they did was change heads. Interestinly the dyno curves didn't even show anything below 2500 rpm which is where I'll be cruising at 75 MPH in 5th. None of the heads showed any appreciable improvement over stock until 3000 with some of them actually showing less torque at 2500 than the stockers. BTW with stock heads this engine made 306 HP at 5300 and 342 ft-lbs at 4000. Every other head had a torque peak at a higher rpm. The best of this first bunch was the AFR 165's which made 396 HP at 5800 and 378 ft-lbs.

The stock heads have only 127 cc intake ports which means that, yes they are restrictive purely by cross-section but this smaller cross-section has the effect of higher port velocity for a given rpm which I believe is what helps that lower torque peak. The larger ports slow the velocity down and the higher velocities are reached at a higher rpm. i do believe that cleaning up the ports a bit, especially the smog bump in the exhaust port will be entirely adequate for a street motor that will very rarely see above 3500 rpm and hence the bucks are better spent on something else like a good cam and exhaust as has already been mentioned. Again for good down low port velocity i wouldn't go too big on the header and exhaust side either.

port matching at any joint will be beneficial but you don't have to open up both sides to the gasket. You will get the benefit by eliminating the steps in the flow path. Obviously steps into the flow path as you head towards the valve are not good for flow, but steps larger at any joint create turbulance as well.

And Joe, your Roush 180's weren't in the first group but they did test roush 200's in the second group on a 331 with a 274 cam in it. again additional power didn't start showing up until past 3000. i can appreciate why you would get some down low benefit with the roush 180's on a blown 351W.

 

Sorry, guys. I'm already breaking my own rule by posting over here and refuse to be drawn into a debate on top of it. He solicited free advice and is getting what he paid for. The heads aren't the total package - but they are the heart of it. If he wants to dump $5000 into a bulletproof short block and choke it to death with stock heads, fine. It's his money. Go ahead and encourage him. Just make sure you're hear to listen to him bitch about what a dog it is later. It's folly to predict a 3500 RPM ceiling with a short stroke motor and expect to get any torque out of it. It's going to have to turn a little faster than that. Gears, heads, and the right cam.

 

Have I missed something as the posts progressed? The fellow only wants 25hp and 50tq over stock, A small cam would do that. I assumed he was putting this motor in a 54 truck that would be a show type occassional driver and well, a well balance stock motor with a nice cam and stock heads would seem to give him what he is asking for. His stock heads will work for what he wants, with a little port work they would work even better. Definitely agree with the gears though. I reread what he posted and don't see what you fellows are talking about the only thing over kill listed was the msd igniton if it were carbed I would say go for it but the stock efi does fine. ferguson777, I forgot to mention that cast pistons would probably be fine if this is going to be a street motor even if you went to the track or got on it a lot they would probably still be fine given igniton and fuel are as they should be. With that said go with hypereutectic they will give you cheap insurance. I would suggest a shortblock but seems you wanna get your hands dirty, so good luck let us know how your buildup goes. Later

 

Guys,

Thanks for all the feedback thus far.

To clarify the usage - daily driver from late April through mid-Oct. Will never see a track.

I'll carefully consider all advice given and will ask additional questions (if necessary) when the thread peters out.

Thanks,

 

Joe,

I saw a request for a relatively inexpensive engine build for low to mid rpm cruisin. I would absolutely agree that if you were putting 5k into a motor, the stock heads would not be part of the package but if you are a cheap Scot or Dutchman as I am and you don't plan on winding the engine much, aftermarket heads aren't going to do much for a relatively mild stock block. I do still like the way that little 5.0 turns in my Mustang even down at 2500 but then I drove 4 bangers for most of my life.

 

"It's folly to predict a 3500 RPM ceiling with a short stroke motor and expect to get any torque out of it. It's going to have to turn a little faster than that. Gears, heads, and the right cam."

'rage

You're statement is absolutely correct. RMF doesn't have the cash for the heads at the moment though. They'll have to come later. Or a 351W comes later. Or perhaps both. That's the advantage to the SB plan. He is free to do as he wants later.

John's right too. RMF asked for a little torque boost for cheap. That's doable too, but not in the RPM range RMF stated. He's going to find out quick his little 302 is boring at 3500 RPM. I like my 302. It's fun to drive. But you gotta wind it up to about 5000 when you're playing around, then the near stock heads sign off. Still, RMF would probably be satisfied for now. Satisfied, not thrilled.

 

Gentlemen,

A couple of throttle body questions -

1. The 90 F150 throttle body is a 2 bbl design (for lack of a better description). That is, it has two round passages in it. Are all car SDI throttle bodies a single barrel/single passage design? Specifically the early Mustang ones.

2. What is the size of the stock 90 F150 SDI throttle body?
50mm? 60 mm? 65mm?

Thanks,

 

If your asking what would be a good stock lower /upper and throttle body then I might point you in the direction of the stock units on the ford explorer 5.0's. Supposed to be very nice torque producers. With that in mind if you haven't got the motor yet you might wanna go with an exploer motor entirely as then you have the gt-40p which are better than the gt-40's. Clean it up add a cam bump the compression, port the heads a little and you should have what your looking for. Someone is gonna say yeah but you have to buy special headers if you plan on buying headers anyway they cost the same, and they work on any other 302 or so I have been told so you won't have to sell them should you change heads. Later