How to test wiring short in running lights?
#31
Brakes: FL - None | FR - None | BL - On | BR - On but Dim
Back rear brake being dim, and the signal not working, that could be a grounding problem. When working on lighting problems, forget the meter, go buy a testlight. Harbor Freight sells them reasonable, they call them a circuit tester. A testlight works much better for testing lighting circuits. If you want to test for a ground problem at that rear light, clip the testlight lead to a good ground, and then probe the ground on the light socket with the bulb in place, and someone pressing on the brake. If the testlight glows dim when it's clipped to a good ground, and it's probing the ground on the socket, you know it's not grounded well. You know it's something common to that back left light that is wrong, you have two totally different circuits going back there and neither one work right on that side.
You also know you have a problem with the front left. Same situation, two totally different circuits to this light both don't work right, the ground is a common denominator to check.
You mentioned your grounding, that is a good thing to bring up, it's very important.
You did not mention a large ground from the battery to the engine block, but I am assuming you have one since it cranks over and starts. I see you have a ground from the block to the frame. So the block is grounded, the frame is grounded.
I don't see any mention of a ground from the engine block to the firewall. Most autos have one, and it's important. The cab and the front sheetmetal are mounted in rubber body mounts. There is no connection to the frame. So I would get a decent sized wire and bolt it to one of the intake or bellhousing bolts, and bolt the other end to the firewall somewhere. You may find the factory one dangling there if it's not hooked up. My 89 f250 also has a ground over near the pass side front body mount, bolted to the frame and then going around the body mount to the floorboard.
The cab should ground the front sheetmetal, but if you want to make sure, run a ground wire from one of those grounds you said come out of the front harness and are bolted to the front radiator support, and run from there down to the frame, since the frame has a good ground. Or run a ground anywhere on the front radiator support to the frame.
I would also run a short jumper ground from the rear bed sheetmetal to the frame at the rear.
I think you are making headway. If you get frustrated walk away and go sit and watch tv or something. Then you can think about it for awhile and then go back at it again.
Back rear brake being dim, and the signal not working, that could be a grounding problem. When working on lighting problems, forget the meter, go buy a testlight. Harbor Freight sells them reasonable, they call them a circuit tester. A testlight works much better for testing lighting circuits. If you want to test for a ground problem at that rear light, clip the testlight lead to a good ground, and then probe the ground on the light socket with the bulb in place, and someone pressing on the brake. If the testlight glows dim when it's clipped to a good ground, and it's probing the ground on the socket, you know it's not grounded well. You know it's something common to that back left light that is wrong, you have two totally different circuits going back there and neither one work right on that side.
You also know you have a problem with the front left. Same situation, two totally different circuits to this light both don't work right, the ground is a common denominator to check.
You mentioned your grounding, that is a good thing to bring up, it's very important.
You did not mention a large ground from the battery to the engine block, but I am assuming you have one since it cranks over and starts. I see you have a ground from the block to the frame. So the block is grounded, the frame is grounded.
I don't see any mention of a ground from the engine block to the firewall. Most autos have one, and it's important. The cab and the front sheetmetal are mounted in rubber body mounts. There is no connection to the frame. So I would get a decent sized wire and bolt it to one of the intake or bellhousing bolts, and bolt the other end to the firewall somewhere. You may find the factory one dangling there if it's not hooked up. My 89 f250 also has a ground over near the pass side front body mount, bolted to the frame and then going around the body mount to the floorboard.
The cab should ground the front sheetmetal, but if you want to make sure, run a ground wire from one of those grounds you said come out of the front harness and are bolted to the front radiator support, and run from there down to the frame, since the frame has a good ground. Or run a ground anywhere on the front radiator support to the frame.
I would also run a short jumper ground from the rear bed sheetmetal to the frame at the rear.
I think you are making headway. If you get frustrated walk away and go sit and watch tv or something. Then you can think about it for awhile and then go back at it again.
#32
I have a test light. That's how I've been testing power to the rear harness, fuse box, brake switch, etc. When I tried it on the front parking light, it just sparked (didn't illuminate the light). They are a double filament bulb with 2 wires running to each housing.
Yes, I forgot to include the the negative battery terminal and the ground on the back of the engine to firewall. Both are in place. There is no ground from bed to frame. (I just assumed that the bed bolts would accomplish that.) BTW - the rear fenders are fiberglass. The tail light ground is screwed to the metal housing and run back through the wiring harness. Do the tail light housings also need to be grounded to the frame?
I think the right rear tail light issues may be related to the converter. It stopped working to that side yesterday. (Couldn't get power for brakes or turn signal.) When I first hooked it up both brake lights were bright. I'm switching from the non-powered converter to a powered converter next week.
It certainly seems that the front left parking light may be an issue. The wires appeared new when I had the grill out last year. I'll have to investigate further. The wires are all wrapped in a wiring harness so it is difficult to inspect for any damage. It was just strange as both front lights had been working properly. Now that I have running/dash lights back, it has moved the problem area. Hopefully can start moving in the right direction.
Yes, I forgot to include the the negative battery terminal and the ground on the back of the engine to firewall. Both are in place. There is no ground from bed to frame. (I just assumed that the bed bolts would accomplish that.) BTW - the rear fenders are fiberglass. The tail light ground is screwed to the metal housing and run back through the wiring harness. Do the tail light housings also need to be grounded to the frame?
I think the right rear tail light issues may be related to the converter. It stopped working to that side yesterday. (Couldn't get power for brakes or turn signal.) When I first hooked it up both brake lights were bright. I'm switching from the non-powered converter to a powered converter next week.
It certainly seems that the front left parking light may be an issue. The wires appeared new when I had the grill out last year. I'll have to investigate further. The wires are all wrapped in a wiring harness so it is difficult to inspect for any damage. It was just strange as both front lights had been working properly. Now that I have running/dash lights back, it has moved the problem area. Hopefully can start moving in the right direction.
#33
The tail light ground is screwed to the metal housing and run back through the wiring harness. Do the tail light housings also need to be grounded to the frame?
I would add a jumper from the bed to the frame. The bolts should be a good ground, but very often these restorations use a lot of paint on things, so when it's put together a good ground can be iffy. You will probably have to scratch the paint off anywhere you add a ground.
I think the right rear tail light issues may be related to the converter. It stopped working to that side yesterday. (Couldn't get power for brakes or turn signal.) When I first hooked it up both brake lights were bright. I'm switching from the non-powered converter to a powered converter next week.
It certainly seems that the front left parking light may be an issue. The wires appeared new when I had the grill out last year. I'll have to investigate further. The wires are all wrapped in a wiring harness so it is difficult to inspect for any damage. It was just strange as both front lights had been working properly. Now that I have running/dash lights back, it has moved the problem area. Hopefully can start moving in the right direction.
#34
Update: I had to ignore the project for a few days before tackling the front wiring. Plus the company sent me the wrong converter and that ticked me off.
I started with the drivers side parking light. Un-did the wiring harness, checked wires/ connections, and tested with the test light.
Issue 1: Seems it didn't have a good ground through the front gravel pan. I wire brushed the holes and temporarily added a jumper wire for a ground in order to continue testing.
Issue 2: Without the parking light assembly hooked up, brown wire is running lights and the other wire is turn signal. Each gets power when they are supposed to. When I hook up the assembly and insert a bulb, it is getting backfeed. Ie. With running lights on, I'm getting power (dim test light) at the other wire. With hazards on, the dash lights blink (feeding back through the running lights). I've tried multiple bulbs including new LEDs. Figure it has to be something in the socket, so trying to find new. (Frustrating as these housings/wiring are only a couple years old!)
Unrelated issue regarding using LED lights. I tried the LEDs (1157s) and neither the turn signals or hazards would work. I put a new Electronic LED Flasher Relay. It worked fine for the hazards, but not for the turn signals. What do I need to do to get use LED turn signals to work?
I started with the drivers side parking light. Un-did the wiring harness, checked wires/ connections, and tested with the test light.
Issue 1: Seems it didn't have a good ground through the front gravel pan. I wire brushed the holes and temporarily added a jumper wire for a ground in order to continue testing.
Issue 2: Without the parking light assembly hooked up, brown wire is running lights and the other wire is turn signal. Each gets power when they are supposed to. When I hook up the assembly and insert a bulb, it is getting backfeed. Ie. With running lights on, I'm getting power (dim test light) at the other wire. With hazards on, the dash lights blink (feeding back through the running lights). I've tried multiple bulbs including new LEDs. Figure it has to be something in the socket, so trying to find new. (Frustrating as these housings/wiring are only a couple years old!)
Unrelated issue regarding using LED lights. I tried the LEDs (1157s) and neither the turn signals or hazards would work. I put a new Electronic LED Flasher Relay. It worked fine for the hazards, but not for the turn signals. What do I need to do to get use LED turn signals to work?
#35
The electronic flasher usually works. Does the ranger wiring use two separate flashers? One for the turns and one for the Hazards? The older vehicles did, some of the newer ones use one large flasher for both. You may be changing the wrong flasher if your truck uses two.
The other solution for the LED's is to use load resistors. They sell them online, they are specifically made for this purpose. LED's are such a small load, that some of the circuits do not work correctly, including the flasher. The resistor presents a load similar to the old style bulbs to make everything happy again.
Your front light socket problem sure does sound like a grounding problem. I know you added a ground, but if you want to experiment some more, get it to act funny again and while it's doing it, clip a short piece of wire to a good ground, strip the end off, and stick it down in beside the bulb so the copper hairs can touch the brass part of the bulb. If it suddenly acts normal, you still have a ground problem, it may be the socket, or some other connection.
The other solution for the LED's is to use load resistors. They sell them online, they are specifically made for this purpose. LED's are such a small load, that some of the circuits do not work correctly, including the flasher. The resistor presents a load similar to the old style bulbs to make everything happy again.
Your front light socket problem sure does sound like a grounding problem. I know you added a ground, but if you want to experiment some more, get it to act funny again and while it's doing it, clip a short piece of wire to a good ground, strip the end off, and stick it down in beside the bulb so the copper hairs can touch the brass part of the bulb. If it suddenly acts normal, you still have a ground problem, it may be the socket, or some other connection.
#36
Yes, there are two 2-prong flashers. I only have one electronic flasher right now. It worked in the hazard flasher but not in the turn signal.
I've been researching LED turn signals for a 1994 Ranger. Some discussions on using load resistors mentioned they can get really hot. I ran across one post where they used a Heavy Duty Solid State Flasher but had to reverse the flasher terminals. Is there a difference between a "No Load Flasher" and the "Electronic Flasher" that has a ground?
I've been researching LED turn signals for a 1994 Ranger. Some discussions on using load resistors mentioned they can get really hot. I ran across one post where they used a Heavy Duty Solid State Flasher but had to reverse the flasher terminals. Is there a difference between a "No Load Flasher" and the "Electronic Flasher" that has a ground?
#37
Not sure about the flasher question. I am sure the resistors would get warm, but how warm can they get when the power is turned on and off continually? They would have to build heat over time, I see the worst case is the hazards being used when you are broke down or something on the side of the road. I don't see using the turnsignal building heat that much,even in a large city where you are turning a lot.
But I have never used them either, so this is all just rambling thinking on my part. If you think about it, the original style bulbs get very hot, you cannot hold on to them if they are lit.
But I have never used them either, so this is all just rambling thinking on my part. If you think about it, the original style bulbs get very hot, you cannot hold on to them if they are lit.
#38
The diode I installed burnt my fingers within a few seconds. I figured I'd try to reduce the risk of anything else that could go wrong!
I switched the terminals on the electronic flasher and it worked. One down...
Bought a new socket for the parking light housing. Hooked it up with the LEDs and with either directional, it would flash all the lights (front and rear). I put the original bulbs back in and the problem went away. I had another set of 1157 LEDs for the taillights and they worked correctly in the parking lights. (But because they were red, need to order another set of white bulbs.) Ticks me off when brand new parts don't work correctly.
New converter should arrive tomorrow, so hopefully this saga will reach a conclusion soon.
I switched the terminals on the electronic flasher and it worked. One down...
Bought a new socket for the parking light housing. Hooked it up with the LEDs and with either directional, it would flash all the lights (front and rear). I put the original bulbs back in and the problem went away. I had another set of 1157 LEDs for the taillights and they worked correctly in the parking lights. (But because they were red, need to order another set of white bulbs.) Ticks me off when brand new parts don't work correctly.
New converter should arrive tomorrow, so hopefully this saga will reach a conclusion soon.
#39
Installed the new converter. Good news / Bad news.
+ Hazards now work.
- For the turn signals, both flash in the rear. For example, with the left signal on, the left will flash bright and the right will flash dim. This problem goes away when stepping on the brake pedal or turning on the running lights.
+ Hazards now work.
- For the turn signals, both flash in the rear. For example, with the left signal on, the left will flash bright and the right will flash dim. This problem goes away when stepping on the brake pedal or turning on the running lights.
#40
Installed the new converter. Good news / Bad news.
+ Hazards now work.
- For the turn signals, both flash in the rear. For example, with the left signal on, the left will flash bright and the right will flash dim. This problem goes away when stepping on the brake pedal or turning on the running lights.
+ Hazards now work.
- For the turn signals, both flash in the rear. For example, with the left signal on, the left will flash bright and the right will flash dim. This problem goes away when stepping on the brake pedal or turning on the running lights.
#41
If only it was that easy! First thing I tried was changing the bulbs back and it didn't solve the problem. I even added another ground to the frame.
I'm going to call the manufacturer in the morning. I'm hoping for an easy fix. I really don't want to pull it back apart after all the wires have been run and connections have shrink tube.
I'm going to call the manufacturer in the morning. I'm hoping for an easy fix. I really don't want to pull it back apart after all the wires have been run and connections have shrink tube.
#42
Tech support suggested adding grounds from taillight housings to frame. (In addition to the existing grounds from taillight housings to converter ground wire.)
Since the front parking lights were only grounded to the front valence panel through the two screws, I also added a ground from the housing to existing cowl support bolts.
Gave it a try and I don't have right rear turn signal. I started testing with the test light - No power at the tail light housing; No power at the rear harness; No power at the front body harness. Yet the front turn signal light is working and the turn signal indicator light is working. All the other functions - left turn, parking lights and brakes are getting power. What path does the turn signal current take from front to rear? Since I'm not getting power to the rear harness, it has to be firewall forward. But I'm not sure where to test next.
Since the front parking lights were only grounded to the front valence panel through the two screws, I also added a ground from the housing to existing cowl support bolts.
Gave it a try and I don't have right rear turn signal. I started testing with the test light - No power at the tail light housing; No power at the rear harness; No power at the front body harness. Yet the front turn signal light is working and the turn signal indicator light is working. All the other functions - left turn, parking lights and brakes are getting power. What path does the turn signal current take from front to rear? Since I'm not getting power to the rear harness, it has to be firewall forward. But I'm not sure where to test next.
#43
Diagram from post 4
http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/Wd/DownloadPdf?id=43870
You can see in the first diagram, the front signals are separate from the rear. The only thing they have in common in the flasher. They have separate contacts in the turn switch, and leave on separate wires. The "LG/O" and "O/LB" wires are for the rear turns that are working, you will find those wires in the 3rd diagram down.
http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/Wd/DownloadPdf?id=43870
You can see in the first diagram, the front signals are separate from the rear. The only thing they have in common in the flasher. They have separate contacts in the turn switch, and leave on separate wires. The "LG/O" and "O/LB" wires are for the rear turns that are working, you will find those wires in the 3rd diagram down.
#44
I was overthinking that one! One of the pins was partially pulled out of the turn signal switch. Pushed it in and got power back to the right rear turn signal.
But of course, that couldn't be the end of the problems. Now if apply the brakes or turn signal, the rear tail lights won't turn off. It's like they are getting stuck on, but only after applied and only with the key turned to the on position. (Ie. press brakes; brake lights come on. release brakes; lights stay on. Pull the battery cable or turn the ignition off and the lights go out.) I tested the rear harness and it's working properly. Regular bulbs were working fine and it started this problem with the LEDs. I put the regular bulbs back in and now it's doing it with either bulbs. I don't know what is going on.
But of course, that couldn't be the end of the problems. Now if apply the brakes or turn signal, the rear tail lights won't turn off. It's like they are getting stuck on, but only after applied and only with the key turned to the on position. (Ie. press brakes; brake lights come on. release brakes; lights stay on. Pull the battery cable or turn the ignition off and the lights go out.) I tested the rear harness and it's working properly. Regular bulbs were working fine and it started this problem with the LEDs. I put the regular bulbs back in and now it's doing it with either bulbs. I don't know what is going on.
#45
But of course, that couldn't be the end of the problems. Now if apply the brakes or turn signal, the rear tail lights won't turn off.
(Ie. press brakes; brake lights come on. release brakes; lights stay on. Pull the battery cable or turn the ignition off and the lights go out.)
To make sure it's the box, get the lights to stay on, and then go back to the box and put your testlight on the brake wire going into the box. Remember this box takes the brake wire and the turn signal wires and mixes them together. So I would do some testing. Since you can get it to fail anytime you want, and it stays that way, you should be able to easily find it. If you have power all the time on the brake wire going into the box, then you need to go up front and test the brake pedal switch for power.