1994.5 - 1997 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel  

Diesel still in oil, even with e-fuel. Am I going to die?

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  #16  
Old 02-21-2017, 03:26 PM
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Yeah my EGTs don't seem out of line either. About 600 to 700 on my daily tune at 70ish on the highway. I can hit the pedal hard and while they go up, it doesn't seem like it's something out of the ordinary for stage 1s and no intercooler. They can reach around the 1200+ mark and go higher of I didn't let off the pedal, but that's only if I'm hitting the pedal hard in 4th and 5th gear.
 
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Old 02-21-2017, 03:36 PM
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From the 7.3 shop manual:

Fuel/Oil Dilution

Probable Causes
If a substantial amount of fuel is in the oil, the cause may be a leaking tandem lift pump. A leaking nozzle sleeve or injector tip may cause fuel to contaminate the engine oil but may be identified as a performance problem. A porous cylinder head may also cause fuel to contaminate the engine oil but would only be likely in a very low mileage vehicle.
Procedures
  • Verify oil contamination. Oil contaminated with diesel fuel will have a diesel fuel odor and will cause the oil level in the engine to "grow".
  • If the oil has a heavy diesel fuel odor and the oil level on the dipstick has increased overtime it is possible that the tandem lift pump is leaking fuel into the crankcase.
You've eliminated the fuel pump as a probable cause; and as stated above, a leaking nozzle sleeve or injector tip would likely show as a performance problem; so that leaves a porous cylinder head, but they say that "would only be likely in a very low mileage vehicle."

First thing you should do is get an oil sample as previously suggested and make sure there is diesel in it.
 
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Old 02-21-2017, 03:47 PM
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A couple points to note.

First off your oil looks incredibly clean, I have never seen oil that clean post oil change on any 7.3 diesel I have touched after idling for more than a minute. That's just an opinion, but its on 7.3s, 5.9s, deutz motors, Cat, JD ag equipment and so on it turns pretty sooty fairly quick when using a oil with a solid detergent package, or even cheap non syn oil for that matter. Newer Tier 3 motors not so much.

The only time i have seen excessive diesel in oil was from a cracked tip, and once from a damaged spring. Both were verified from the injector builder. I have also personally had #7 snag a washer when installing on a SD and finally burn out the lower ring after 100 or so miles, but once again you'd think the truck was on fire out of the exhaust, and it actually hydrolocked when shut off. All 3 instances when the truck was running it looked like a fire extinguisher out the tail pipe and it would make you cry from the diesel fumes.

I'd first confirm its diesel, drop your plug and drain a into a clear jar and confirm its not coolant.

I assumed you changed oil since the old pump was weeping correct?

Regarding the leaks, you would be surprised that diesel washing down outside of an oily block will wash grime and oil and pubddle appearing like oil, if its big enough it can spray off and come down clear as well. diesel will evaporate after a day or so. Do the spot evap?

Double check your fitting on the firewall side of the heads as well as your other 1/4npt fitting on the feed side of the head depending on your orientation. Do you have any diesel in the valley? If its a lot it could seep past the freeze plug, but I'd be hard pressed it would be enough to significantly taint the oil. Either way test your oil. 20$ is much cheaper then lower mains if its coolant.

Coolant level stay in check?

Its a long shot but I have always wondered if a ring was completely blown and once the truck was shut off if fuel could permeate into the oil being that what is left in the lines can drain by gravity pass the ring into the oil once your HPOP pressure has relieved... this is a random long shot with no backing. Also if the truck is not running and the key is on with the pump running, this would do the same. That being said you would be loosing a ton of oil into the fuel when the truck was running, likely enough to drain 7 qts in under 100 miles. Your filter will be black and if you have a prefilter/seperator, when you drain it it will look like straight motor oil.

Other wise I can't think of anything else besides a dead cylinder... compression test.

1. Get an oil anlysis, verify diesel
2. pull the injectors and verify rings
3. compression check
4. flow bench injectors
5. check fuel filter(probably should be first as its easiest)


I agree, there are so many diesel in oil threads out there that never come to conclusion

EDIT: I have seen oil that clean, and that was after break in on a new motor with OCIs at 500-1000-1500, but that was out of pure precaution on a brand new motor that had more into it than all my trucks combined value. 500 was dirtier than the rest
 
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Old 02-21-2017, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DZL JIM
I would love to know how fuel in the oil would be from an injector.
You've been in them and can likely rebuild them in your sleep...

Is there any way the intensified fuel can leak into the into the oil driving the intensifier? If all or some of the injector nozzle holes get temporarily plugged. This seems to be the only location where there is fuel with a higher pressure than oil.
 
  #20  
Old 02-21-2017, 05:12 PM
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Thanks for all the responses guys! Sorry in advanced for my HUGE pictures in this post but at least they shows detail!

I won't have time to do a compression check today but I did manage to pick up a harbor freight tester on the way home from work.

I pulled my dipstick when I got home and the fluid is up to the second l on the "FULL" line so it's past the checkerbox area. I think it has raised some since adding oil about 500 miles ago.

Also, the oil was still incredibly almost water thin and I believe it did have a faint diesel smell to it. Also, the puddles under my truck were fairly large, there were three almost the diameter of softballs (dripping from the bellhousing, oil pan, and starter area.) The fluid under the truck was mainly oil, but it was super clean and too thin as well.

I will try and verify and get an oil test to make 100% sure, but here are some more pictures and info on everything so far:

Here is what the coolant reservoir looks like:





There is no abnormal smell either, it smells like normal coolant. I do have the waterpump with a filter on it and haven't looked at that yet, but I'd imagine my coolant level would go down significantly if there was an issue. It has stayed the same.


Here is the line on the dipstick:



You can see the fluid is around the end of the "FULL" mark, maybe a little higher towards the " - " part before the "do not overfill" marking.

This is what the drops off the dipstick looked like on the concrete. It's dripping very fast:



Here is what the diesel looks like in the pre filter as well:



The lighting here makes it looks a little greenish but it looks/smells/feels like normal diesel to me.



So my plan is now to get an oil anaylsis, and compression check. I'm going to try and drain a little bit of oil from the pan but keep most of it in there so I can still start the truck and warm it up for the compression test.


I sure hope my compression numbers come up fine and that it's not the issue... It sure doesn't seem like I have oil in my fuel, but I can pretty much guarantee I have fuel in the oil. I'll just have to wait to see how much. I'll be looking for fuel testing labs near my tonight so hopefully I can send a sample out this week.
 
  #21  
Old 02-21-2017, 05:21 PM
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Why is your battery terminal on upside down? The fuel does look a little green.

Red
 
  #22  
Old 02-21-2017, 07:53 PM
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Haha I don't remember why I had it down. It may have to do with the routing I made the negative cable when I put everything back together.

As for the fuel looking green, it didn't seem as green in person and in different light so I don't think there is anything wrong with it like coolant getting into the fuel. It doesn't smell like coolant to me and my coolant level isnt dropping.
 
  #23  
Old 02-21-2017, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DZL JIM
I would love to know how fuel in the oil would be from an injector.
The oil side runs at 550 psi minimum, the fuel side at 65 psi.
You will always get oil in your fuel when there is an injector seal/o-ring issue.
The possible exception to this is if a nozzle hangs open and constantly washes a cylinder. Then I could see fixing the injectors would make the dilution issue go away. But then if this were the case, you'd have many other issues and symptoms to point towards a hung nozzle, too.

We get several calls a year regarding fuel in the oil and never hear back as to what the cause was. We scratch our heads here on this like everyone else...
I am far from an injector expert, but changing the all the injectors with a good used set cured the engine from "making oil", as well as returning the power level, and hard cold temp starting. The same with the combine injectors. I first had the pump overhauled, and it still "made oil", so the injectors were pulled and rebuilt, and that also cured the problem. To me, I'd have to say the injectors were the problem. What they were doing to "make oil" I have no clue.
 
  #24  
Old 02-21-2017, 09:53 PM
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That's how BIO blend pump diesel looks like, #2 Diesel is clear, of road diesel is red, oil in diesel either dark tint or blue in color.
 
  #25  
Old 02-21-2017, 10:11 PM
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Is the oil level rising?

Is the coolant level dropping?
 
  #26  
Old 02-21-2017, 10:37 PM
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He said yes to 1 and no to 2.
 
  #27  
Old 02-22-2017, 12:39 AM
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Yes the oil does seem to be rising a bit. It's hard to tell how much based on how thin it is, the dipstick is somewhat difficult to read but I don't recall it hitting the "FULL" lettering before, at least not past the U, but now it's past the word entirely. When I last changed the oil after the e fuel setup, I DIDN'T change my filter, change the oil in the hpop reservoir, or oil rail however. The filter was roughly 1k to maybe 2k miles old so I kept it on there. I added either 13 or 14 quarts of oil as well. If the previous oil was heavily contaminated with diesel fuel, I wouldn't think the 3 leftover quarts or so would be enough fuel to dilute 13-14 quarters to near water consistency would it?

The coolant has stayed the same level in the overflow tank since my last oil change as well.

As for the diesel color, it should be pump #2 as far as I'm aware. I just get the standard diesel at the pump here in AZ. I don't think Fountain Hills has anything special going on. The diesel always seemed to have a yellow tint to me from what I recall seeing anytime I messed with my fuel bowl previously and so on. Say Glenn, have you ever peeked at what the diesel looks like at the pump around here?
 
  #28  
Old 02-22-2017, 06:29 AM
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I wonder if phosphorescent dye in your fuel (I would start with a fairly low tank) would show up in the oil.
 
  #29  
Old 02-22-2017, 06:39 AM
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You still have a fuel leak in your valley from the fittings for the efuel right? Maybe the freeze plug you installed isn't sealed very tight and leaking fuel in there.
 
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Old 02-22-2017, 08:00 AM
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Hmm I will see if I could get some dye or something that may beba good idea if I can't send off a sample soon. I did just fill my tank though so it's almost full now.

As for the freeze plug, I'll definitely check to see if fuel can leak past that. I did put a bunch of anaerobic sealer around the plug and it seems nice and sealed, but it's worth a check for sure. Ill try pouring fuel over it and see if it lowers any within a few minutes.
 


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