2001 F350 7.2 4r100 Tranny balking in 'Drive'
#1
2001 F350 7.2 4r100 Tranny balking in 'Drive'
After reading through over three dozen various threads during the last three days, I can't find anything specific to our situation, and I'm worn out reading.
If this problem is obvious I do apologize.
New to us 2001 F350 w/4r100 - 128K . Vehicle sat for last several months. Trying to get it back into form.
Spent the first eight years (96k) of it's life at a municipality in Florida, then as a 'work' truck here in TN.
'Drive' has gone wonky - at the end of a 100 mile trip the other day on mixed roads, country to freeway.
It performed fine, took the hills here in East TN just fine.
Coming through town about four miles from home and we went over a 'wash board' at an intersection at around 30MPH
Bounced us hard all over the place, heard something that didn't sound right, but I was focus on keeping it in the lane,
then she didn't want to proceed forward. Just rev'd out like it was in Neutral.
Dropped it down to first, it engaged and moved. Back up to Drive and she barely moved.
Crawled into a parking lot, turned it off. Back on, put into drive and it would move forward and then it was like a 'brake' was applied.
Limped home in 2nd. blech - not fun. Tried Drive twice and it would move forward and then it was like it was braking on the rears and they it would rev out.
Checked the fluid the next morning. Was a quart low. No leaks. Truck is 'dry' except for a slight leak from a P/S hose.
Took it out. Two lane country road where we live.
She'll go in Drive but then it's like some sort of brake kicks in, won't get up to speed. You can feel it from the rear end.
Pushed her up a slight hill (~30MPH) then on the downward side she bogs down. Kinda feels like when you're in 2nd with a manual and using the engine to brake.
Linkage is/was all shot to H... Took the trim off and the OD wires are sheared.
In the process of replacing the Steering column now to see if the OD is the problem. (wishful thinking, I know...)
Then onto the next step(s) after I get that back in and hooked.
Thanks in Advance for any advice.
_Dan
If this problem is obvious I do apologize.
New to us 2001 F350 w/4r100 - 128K . Vehicle sat for last several months. Trying to get it back into form.
Spent the first eight years (96k) of it's life at a municipality in Florida, then as a 'work' truck here in TN.
'Drive' has gone wonky - at the end of a 100 mile trip the other day on mixed roads, country to freeway.
It performed fine, took the hills here in East TN just fine.
Coming through town about four miles from home and we went over a 'wash board' at an intersection at around 30MPH
Bounced us hard all over the place, heard something that didn't sound right, but I was focus on keeping it in the lane,
then she didn't want to proceed forward. Just rev'd out like it was in Neutral.
Dropped it down to first, it engaged and moved. Back up to Drive and she barely moved.
Crawled into a parking lot, turned it off. Back on, put into drive and it would move forward and then it was like a 'brake' was applied.
Limped home in 2nd. blech - not fun. Tried Drive twice and it would move forward and then it was like it was braking on the rears and they it would rev out.
Checked the fluid the next morning. Was a quart low. No leaks. Truck is 'dry' except for a slight leak from a P/S hose.
Took it out. Two lane country road where we live.
She'll go in Drive but then it's like some sort of brake kicks in, won't get up to speed. You can feel it from the rear end.
Pushed her up a slight hill (~30MPH) then on the downward side she bogs down. Kinda feels like when you're in 2nd with a manual and using the engine to brake.
Linkage is/was all shot to H... Took the trim off and the OD wires are sheared.
In the process of replacing the Steering column now to see if the OD is the problem. (wishful thinking, I know...)
Then onto the next step(s) after I get that back in and hooked.
Thanks in Advance for any advice.
_Dan
#2
You make no mention of the fluids condition, the smell and the look. Have the TCM (trans computer) pre and present codes read by someone with the proper reader. The parts places, as a rule dont have the proper diagnostic reader tor the TCM with the Ford specific software. A reputable HD truck trans shop should be able to diagnose and estimate the cost to fix.
Does it have disc or drums in the rear? If disc pull the rotors and inspect the E-brakes. Jack it up first and spin the rear tires. With it running, in neutral, apply the brakes then try to spin the rear tires by hand. A good caliper and (soft) caliper brake line will release brake fluid pressure on the caliper(s) by the time you walk from the cab to the back end to spin the tire. If they are stuck you have a bad caliper or rubber line.
.
My money is on the ebrake anchor pins. Ill bet they let lose (pulled through the backing plate) when you hit the bumps. Look real close at the back side of the rear axle brake plats for rot. One of the two pins per side is obscured by the caliper.
Does it have disc or drums in the rear? If disc pull the rotors and inspect the E-brakes. Jack it up first and spin the rear tires. With it running, in neutral, apply the brakes then try to spin the rear tires by hand. A good caliper and (soft) caliper brake line will release brake fluid pressure on the caliper(s) by the time you walk from the cab to the back end to spin the tire. If they are stuck you have a bad caliper or rubber line.
.
My money is on the ebrake anchor pins. Ill bet they let lose (pulled through the backing plate) when you hit the bumps. Look real close at the back side of the rear axle brake plats for rot. One of the two pins per side is obscured by the caliper.
#3
You make no mention of the fluids condition, the smell and the look. Have the TCM (trans computer) pre and present codes read by someone with the proper reader. The parts places, as a rule dont have the proper diagnostic reader tor the TCM with the Ford specific software. A reputable HD truck trans shop should be able to diagnose and estimate the cost to fix.
Does it have disc or drums in the rear? If disc pull the rotors and inspect the E-brakes. Jack it up first and spin the rear tires. With it running, in neutral, apply the brakes then try to spin the rear tires by hand. A good caliper and (soft) caliper brake line will release brake fluid pressure on the caliper(s) by the time you walk from the cab to the back end to spin the tire. If they are stuck you have a bad caliper or rubber line.
.
My money is on the ebrake anchor pins. Ill bet they let lose (pulled through the backing plate) when you hit the bumps. Look real close at the back side of the rear axle brake plats for rot. One of the two pins per side is obscured by the caliper.
Does it have disc or drums in the rear? If disc pull the rotors and inspect the E-brakes. Jack it up first and spin the rear tires. With it running, in neutral, apply the brakes then try to spin the rear tires by hand. A good caliper and (soft) caliper brake line will release brake fluid pressure on the caliper(s) by the time you walk from the cab to the back end to spin the tire. If they are stuck you have a bad caliper or rubber line.
.
My money is on the ebrake anchor pins. Ill bet they let lose (pulled through the backing plate) when you hit the bumps. Look real close at the back side of the rear axle brake plats for rot. One of the two pins per side is obscured by the caliper.
- Fluid smell - normal, didn't smell like it was burnt or fried. Look reddish and not brown, thankfully.
- Rear discs.
I haven't gone over the brakes yet. Been cleaning her up and changing oil and such.
She drove fine for over a week until that rough patch of road, and she still does fine in 2nd.
There's no 'drag' when in 2nd, just in Drive.
I'll check that after I get the steering column back in and the wires hooked up. The whole vehicle bounced all over on me when I hit the 'wash board' and I felt a bit out of control over it there for couple of heartbeats.
My better half did mention something about a 'noise'...
(I do wish they'd resurface that intersection.)
A friend has offered to swing by with his SnapOn Diag box after I get the steering column and wiring straightened out. So then I'll have some valid codes.
I am hoping for a solution within my skills set and avoid a hit on the budget.
Thanks,
_Dan
#4
Tough to diagnose sight unseen. Only educated guesses at this point. After a re-read the "revving out" as you put it sounds like something internal in the trans let lose. Is it actually free wheeling? Any lights flashing at you on the dash or on the gear shifter? Strange that a bump in the road coincides with this. Thats why I gravitated towards the ebrakes but that wont cause a free wheeling effect. Exhaust the simple trouble shooting things as I mentioned. Real interested in what the diagnosis is. Have you crawled under it to look at the shift linkage and trans wire harness? If the connector going into the trans case is making intermittent contact this could cause things to go haywire. Is the transfer case locked into 4H? Not up on the 4R100s, up on 5R110W and 6R140s...and most old school analogs.
Have the fluid pressures tested to see if the trans pressure circuits are within spec. This is a sure fire way of trouble shooting a trans that has cross-circuit or gross circuit leaks.
Post the codes here. Mark K will know what they mean. Mark is the go to here for 4R100s and Torque-shift 5R110s.
Have the fluid pressures tested to see if the trans pressure circuits are within spec. This is a sure fire way of trouble shooting a trans that has cross-circuit or gross circuit leaks.
Post the codes here. Mark K will know what they mean. Mark is the go to here for 4R100s and Torque-shift 5R110s.
#5
Tough to diagnose sight unseen. Only educated guesses at this point. After a re-read the "revving out" as you put it sounds like something internal in the trans let lose. Is it actually free wheeling? Any lights flashing at you on the dash or on the gear shifter? Strange that a bump in the road coincides with this. Thats why I gravitated towards the ebrakes but that wont cause a free wheeling effect. Exhaust the simple trouble shooting things as I mentioned. Real interested in what the diagnosis is. Have you crawled under it to look at the shift linkage and trans wire harness? If the connector going into the trans case is making intermittent contact this could cause things to go haywire. Is the transfer case locked into 4H? Not up on the 4R100s, up on 5R110W and 6R140s...and most old school analogs.
Have the fluid pressures tested to see if the trans pressure circuits are within spec. This is a sure fire way of trouble shooting a trans that has cross-circuit or gross circuit leaks.
Post the codes here. Mark K will know what they mean. Mark is the go to here for 4R100s and Torque-shift 5R110s.
Have the fluid pressures tested to see if the trans pressure circuits are within spec. This is a sure fire way of trouble shooting a trans that has cross-circuit or gross circuit leaks.
Post the codes here. Mark K will know what they mean. Mark is the go to here for 4R100s and Torque-shift 5R110s.
I yanked the column before I found out about the OD light flashing.
That's one of the reasons I picked up a a different column.
The wires sheared about 3/4" out of the shifter handle.
And this beast needed a Tilt steering upgrade and I wanted to rebuild the shifter tube and bushings with something better suited. Oillite bronze comes to mind...
The linkage at the tranny was good. before I yanked the column, I manually moved it through the 'indents' while my better half was in the cab.
I need to crawl under it and check & clean the connector on that switch.
GrandDad always did say "Son, always check your connections..." and he was always right. especially in regards to 'grounds'.
I was thinking about replacing the "Transmission Range Sensor" thinking maybe that 'broke' after the roughage.
I need to make up the checklist, gather the equipment and start testing and verifying.
I really am not in the mood or frame of mind to drop the pan - yet.
I am so hoping that it is not something internal.
Thanks,
_Dan
#7
OK, got the replacement steering column in, with Tilt! and an Airbag fault.
(out of an Expedition, and that's going to be a whole 'nother thread...)
OD is now working. Hit the button and it shows 'Off'. No blinking.
Ran it down the road and it's still doing the same thing.
Get's up to around 25-30 and it feels like something is engaging the rear brakes, dnd kicking in down a gear.
Bought a bluetooth OBDII adapter off of Amazon. A BAFX.
Loaded up ForScan on the laptop but there is nothing showing for the Tranny.
Also tried the full version of Torque on my tablet and that reported nothing also.
Going to go crawl underneath it now and go over all the sensor connections. Thanks, _Dan
here's the codes that Forscan did show: (Click to show)
.
.
(out of an Expedition, and that's going to be a whole 'nother thread...)
OD is now working. Hit the button and it shows 'Off'. No blinking.
Ran it down the road and it's still doing the same thing.
Get's up to around 25-30 and it feels like something is engaging the rear brakes, dnd kicking in down a gear.
Bought a bluetooth OBDII adapter off of Amazon. A BAFX.
Loaded up ForScan on the laptop but there is nothing showing for the Tranny.
Also tried the full version of Torque on my tablet and that reported nothing also.
Going to go crawl underneath it now and go over all the sensor connections. Thanks, _Dan
here's the codes that Forscan did show: (Click to show)
Spoiler
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#8
I got underneath it and checked the rear speed sensor, cleaned the contacts.
Moved on the the Range sensor. I had grabbed two off of two Navigators at the yard.
Numbers matched so I swapped one. Took it back up the road and it did the same thing.
Pulled into a cul-de-sac and sat there contemplating.
Decided for grins to check the 4WD shifter, ran it though it's positions a couple of times
and headed back to the house.
This time the problem didn't show up so I took the truck out onto the main road and got her up to 50MPH.
No sign of the problem. Hot diggity, I thought while trying to figure out in my mind what the 4WD had to do with the problem.
Got her home and tried to fix a pesky leak on the PS pump hose. Did that.
We headed out for a quick dinner and did not even make it three blocks.
Got to the stop sign (on a slight hill) and she totally crapped out.
No Forward gears at all, Motor revving up but nothing would engage.
We did get reverse for a moment and I backed it into a driveway.
Still no forward motion. Tried reverse and got that for a second and then it too crapped out.
Tried cycling the 4WD selector and still nothing.
Walked home, grabbed the Silverado and a tow strap and brought it home.
After we got her in the driveway, I tried again. Got reverse for a couple of seconds and then it 'disengaged'...
Ran Torque on it, no codes came up.
Disconnected the batteries and went to bed. Going to try to look at it again this afternoon.
Want to check the wiring between the position sensor and the PCM.
Moved on the the Range sensor. I had grabbed two off of two Navigators at the yard.
Numbers matched so I swapped one. Took it back up the road and it did the same thing.
Pulled into a cul-de-sac and sat there contemplating.
Decided for grins to check the 4WD shifter, ran it though it's positions a couple of times
and headed back to the house.
This time the problem didn't show up so I took the truck out onto the main road and got her up to 50MPH.
No sign of the problem. Hot diggity, I thought while trying to figure out in my mind what the 4WD had to do with the problem.
Got her home and tried to fix a pesky leak on the PS pump hose. Did that.
We headed out for a quick dinner and did not even make it three blocks.
Got to the stop sign (on a slight hill) and she totally crapped out.
No Forward gears at all, Motor revving up but nothing would engage.
We did get reverse for a moment and I backed it into a driveway.
Still no forward motion. Tried reverse and got that for a second and then it too crapped out.
Tried cycling the 4WD selector and still nothing.
Walked home, grabbed the Silverado and a tow strap and brought it home.
After we got her in the driveway, I tried again. Got reverse for a couple of seconds and then it 'disengaged'...
Ran Torque on it, no codes came up.
Disconnected the batteries and went to bed. Going to try to look at it again this afternoon.
Want to check the wiring between the position sensor and the PCM.
#9
Round -4-
So now I have it so that it doesn't move.
I've got it chocked on a slight incline. Reconnected batteries and she started up fine.
Engaged Reverse and it backed up a bit ~20' then disengaged.
Power off, back on had Reverse and Drive for a few minutes - then nothing.
Cleaned the connections on the plunger switch on the Transfer Case and tested it.
Replaced the Postion Sensor with the other spare from the boneyard.
4WD indicator is only showing 'Low' on the dash when moving the lever.
So now I have it so that it doesn't move.
I've got it chocked on a slight incline. Reconnected batteries and she started up fine.
Engaged Reverse and it backed up a bit ~20' then disengaged.
Power off, back on had Reverse and Drive for a few minutes - then nothing.
Cleaned the connections on the plunger switch on the Transfer Case and tested it.
Replaced the Postion Sensor with the other spare from the boneyard.
4WD indicator is only showing 'Low' on the dash when moving the lever.
#10
#11
Drat. Was so hoping for an easy fix, as everyone does.
Yes it does hold in Park. It's sitting on a slight grade (<1%) in the driveway currently.
Went out this morning with coffee in hand, started her up, let it warm up a bit, put it Reverse and backed up the driveway. No slippage, no hesitation. Behaved normally.
Sat there on the driveway in Reverse idling, brakes released and she held.
Waited a couple of minutes and put her into Park, and it held.
Waited a bit and put it into Reverse and the engine stumbled and labored weirdly and then she went back a bit and crapped out.
Pressing the go pedal she just rev'd out, shuddered a bit, but held on the incline.
It's like there's 'braking' being applied somewhere. You can feel it.
Reverse gave out, I coasted forward a few feet then applied the brakes, let off and she held - in reverse.
Engine was behaving a tad odd during this. Tapped the brakes again then she started drifted forward and shortly lost hold.
Coasted her back down against the chocks - in Reverse. It was like it was in Neutral.
Shut her down and went for more coffee...
Thanks Mark,
_Dan
Yes it does hold in Park. It's sitting on a slight grade (<1%) in the driveway currently.
Went out this morning with coffee in hand, started her up, let it warm up a bit, put it Reverse and backed up the driveway. No slippage, no hesitation. Behaved normally.
Sat there on the driveway in Reverse idling, brakes released and she held.
Waited a couple of minutes and put her into Park, and it held.
Waited a bit and put it into Reverse and the engine stumbled and labored weirdly and then she went back a bit and crapped out.
Pressing the go pedal she just rev'd out, shuddered a bit, but held on the incline.
It's like there's 'braking' being applied somewhere. You can feel it.
Reverse gave out, I coasted forward a few feet then applied the brakes, let off and she held - in reverse.
Engine was behaving a tad odd during this. Tapped the brakes again then she started drifted forward and shortly lost hold.
Coasted her back down against the chocks - in Reverse. It was like it was in Neutral.
Shut her down and went for more coffee...
Thanks Mark,
_Dan
#12
Shameless *bump* on a Saturday morning.
Finally got around to dropping the pan.
Fluid very dark, but doesn't smell burnt at all.
Some sludge in the pan, and about a teaspoon on 'swarf' on the magnet.
When I drained the fluid I did so slowly allowing it to pass through a filter into the bucket, nothing showed up there.
Is there a 'check' valve in the filter? I removed it and there was still a half a liter of fluid in it.
There is a metal tab at the rear that has (3) bolts in and is stamped 'UP'.
'UP' is facing the ground. Is that correct? (Which way is up in a tranny?)
Also of note, I was able to drive it from where I had it sitting up to the garage and get it into position to work on it.
I remember reading something last month about 'what to check for when the pan is off'. I'm going to grab some coffee and try to track that thread down.
Suggestions and guidance very much appreciated.
*EDIT* - Found it. The three 'Feed' bolts. Going to give that a try after I figure out gasket and supplies that are required.
Also need to go find Mark's write up about flushing this puppy.
_Dan
Finally got around to dropping the pan.
Fluid very dark, but doesn't smell burnt at all.
Some sludge in the pan, and about a teaspoon on 'swarf' on the magnet.
When I drained the fluid I did so slowly allowing it to pass through a filter into the bucket, nothing showed up there.
Is there a 'check' valve in the filter? I removed it and there was still a half a liter of fluid in it.
There is a metal tab at the rear that has (3) bolts in and is stamped 'UP'.
'UP' is facing the ground. Is that correct? (Which way is up in a tranny?)
Also of note, I was able to drive it from where I had it sitting up to the garage and get it into position to work on it.
I remember reading something last month about 'what to check for when the pan is off'. I'm going to grab some coffee and try to track that thread down.
Suggestions and guidance very much appreciated.
*EDIT* - Found it. The three 'Feed' bolts. Going to give that a try after I figure out gasket and supplies that are required.
Also need to go find Mark's write up about flushing this puppy.
_Dan
Last edited by middle.road; 03-25-2017 at 11:36 AM. Reason: Found it
#13
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Damon (South East Texas)
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11 Posts
This will answer some of your questions and be helpful in removing the valve bodies to access the feed bolts. Read through the R&R procedure in the attached document. Once the Valve Bodies and Separator Plate are removed, you can check the seals on each of the Clutch Pack Apply Pistons by blowing compressed air in each of the Test Locations. You should hear a "thud"(no air loss) with each application. If any do not pass, the trans will need to come apart.
Valve Bodies R&R.docx
Feed Bolt Torque
Air Test Locations
Check Ball Locations
Valve Bodies R&R.docx
Feed Bolt Torque
Air Test Locations
Check Ball Locations
#15