There are clearly a lot of F250's pulling everything.


Door cert is basically meaningless.


I would not hesitate for a minute.

 

I believe the door cert does give the dealer the right to deny warranty service if they determine the truck has been used in a manner that exceeds the sticker limits. I know I saw that in Ford print somewhere, maybe the service manual. Never heard of it happening though. Anyone else read that?

Steve

 

how would they know unless you took the RV in to the dealership?

 

I have no idea how they would know. My thought is they probably wouldn't which is why it is never enforced.

Steve

 

I don't agree that the ratings on a truck don't mean anything. Ford, GM and Ram all compete on the numbers. The trucks are rated very high for what they are... over 40K GCVWR on the F350 DRW and F450 is amazing.

For the de-rated trucks (10K F350), and perhaps the F250 (vs similar F350), I understand being less convinced on the manufacturer limits. Perhaps the 14,000# GVWR class-3 limit for the F450 means the truck can handle more.

For some of the trucks, such as the F350 SRW rated at 11,500 GVWR, I'd be very careful to ignore the ratings. This GVWR limits the coveted payload numbers. I can't see why Ford would rate their truck lower than they should be rated. What would motivate Ford's combination of shareholders/lawyers/engineering/marketing folks to do that? Continue being spanked by Ram's 12,300# GVWR 3500 SRW? Lose sales due to concerns about capability? Personally, I think Ford says not to exceed 11,500# GVW with the F350 SRW for good reason based on its design.

I certainly understand not wanting to drive a truck as big as the manufacture says you need for a given trailer. I also understand not wanting to get a smaller trailer to match the manufacturer limits on the truck. I just don't think one can reasonably say the manufacturer limits are bogus or can be ignored without risk - they certainly know their trucks better than we consumers do. Complex models for the design, testing with many sensors on the vehicles, failure-mode testing, the list goes on.

 

Let me preface first. I am within all my ratings on everything.

Now, having said that, the crux of the discussion is simply this. When you break down the trucks by components using the ratings Ford supplies, an F350 SRW and an F250 SRW are nearly identical with the exception of rear axles.

And in terms of real world feedback, there is nothing coming in to suggest folks who go beyond their ratings suffer component failures, legal difficulties, etc.

That is all I care to say about the ongoing debate.

Steve

 

I certainly agree that everyone needs to make their own decisions. Personally, I don't think there will be any issue with component failures even well over the stated limits.

In 6 years of towing, I've never had to make an emergency maneuver with my trailer attached. Every couple of years or so, I need to make an emergency maneuver during my normal driving due to someone doing something unexpected, but haven't had to do that while towing yet.

I think that is where pushing the limits of the truck will be found. Having to swerve under heavy braking, having to deal with a blown tire, those types of things. >99.9%+ of my driving is nice and relaxed; it's the <0.1% of the time something unexpected happens that I want to have some safety margin.

 

GVWR has nothing to do with capability. GVWR - curb weight = payload is what matters for capability. Curb weight is the defining factor.

The Ram 12,300 GVWR truck has a payload of max 4480lbs.
Fords 11,500 GVWR truck has a payload of max 4400lbs.

Don't think there is any spanking happening for 80lb payload. Both are SAE J2807 rated also.

 

I guess I want to be clear that I am not saying that an F-250 can be treated like an F-450. There are extreme differences in those trucks -- not the least of which the DRW. And in actual fact, I think you'll get (and I would like) much more than <0.1% benefit from an F-450.

Man, I sure would like to have as much margin as possible too. And it's my fault that I was too stupid to do my own research with eyes wide open to make that decision up front.

I certainly would have loved to have a sales team that helped a towing newbie understand that the numbers in the F-250 towing charts are complete BS unless you buy an optionless 2x4, gasser.

It sure would be nice if they would put in the front of those publications a picture of the yellow sticker, and tell you to pay strict attention to it and ignore their BS charts because at the end of the day that's all that's going to matter for towing something that attaches over your rear axle.

It sure would be nice for them to admit to pulling the wool over the eyes of the naive public and happily take my F-250 in on an F-350/450 with 99% of the value intact.

But they don't. So here I sit with a yellow sticker that says I can't tow a 15,000# 5ver (but interestingly can tow almost that much from my bumper). Except I don't want to tow from my bumper.

So I've got a few choices.

1. Walk back the F-250 purchase, take at least a 10k loss, and buy an F-350. So let's say I do that. What am I getting? Well, after extensive and careful research, better leaf springs. Maybe *slightly* stronger front coils. THAT'S ALL.

Now what does it cost to do that to (upgrade the suspension on) my F-250? WAY less than 10k. Way, way less.

Why would I trade my F-250 for an F-350? Would it give me the <0.1% safety margin? NO. Because after I upgrade the suspension I would have the exact same truck parts as a combination 2016/2017 F-350 (complicated because Ford used the '16 F-350's axle in the '17 F-250). Is it worth $10k+ to be able to say "I am within all my numbers?" when in fact I know that I already am (except for a sticker that I believe has become meaningless at that point)? NO.

2. Upgrade the suspension on the F-250 and treat it like an F-350.

I challenge anyone (and specifically call out the Ford engineers who I know read this forum) to tell me this is wrong or not safe -- and more specifically HOW?

In fact, I believe I can make the F-250 BETTER than a stock F-350. I'm going to add a sway bar. Better shocks. Air bags. And I'll be adding anti-sway braking and disc brakes to my eventual 5ver. I've yet to have anybody give me a valid, scientific argument about how this is less safe or capable than just taking a stock F-350 off the lot. Yet, I have had many, many people on this forum and outside of it tell me they tow big, heavy 5vers with F-250's and no problems.

3. Throw in the towel and buy an F-450. Someday I may do this. For now, my plans are to tow short distances in good weather, and not over mountains. For the foreseeable future I have no plans to tow anything that would require an F-450 (i.e. exceed the limits of my axle/tires), and until/unless I experience any issues with light FL winds or Semi's (or decide I will buy a bigger coach) will leave this an an option for the 'next' truck.

Yes, everybody does have to make their own decisions. And if I were starting over, I'd go with the F-350/450 100% sure. But I've never been in to BS rules and the world is full of them. I'm not telling anybody else what to do. But as for me and my truck, I'm going with option 2.

 

As a strong Ford fan, owner, and shareholder, I wish that were true. The number you gave for the Ford is for the gas engine and the number for the Ram is for the diesel. I'm referring to the difference with the diesel trucks.

The Ram 3500 SRW diesel and the Ford F350 SRW diesel weigh nearly the same. The extra 800# of GVWR translate into about 800# of payload capacity for the those trucks.

The F350 SRW long bed 4x4 6.7 has a payload around 3100# - 3600# depending on trim level and options.

The Ram 6.7 long bed crew cab 4x4 6.7 tops at at 4480# (4380# for the Aisin) payload - the F350 SRW 6.7 long bed crew 4x4 isn't even close. (see page 5 in: https://www.ramtrucks.com/assets/tow...ing_charts.pdf)

Again, don't get me wrong... the Ford is a much, much better truck overall. My current truck is a Ford, the truck I ordered is a Ford, but the facts are the facts when it comes to payload ratings from the manufacturers.

 

Sorry my bad. looked at the wrong column.

Diesel payload is 3940.

 

Does the f350 srw 6.7 4x4 long bed crew have 3920? I've never seen one over 3500. 3920 may be for the 4x2 or a regular cab. I think the Ram really has 800# more payload in the 4x4 long crew 6.7.

 

If your F250 has the heavy tow package then it has the heavier M275 diff that the F350 does, otherwise you have the Sterling that was used in previous models of both F250/350's (as far as I know). Since the Sterling was good enough for the F350 last year with a 11.5k GVWR then it's dang good enough for you. You are also one spring short- big deal. As you said, add another leaf or airbags. Unless you are worried about the real police or the "weight police" on this forum and the RV forums- keep the truck.

 

Nothing under your scenarios would benefit from the differences between a F250 and F350 as the brakes, wheels and tires are identical. What would make a difference would be a DRW in either the F350 or F450 flavor.

 

I completely agree.