Behind the times...other than direct injection, what are other engines doing that the 5.0 isn't?

 

The second article does mention:
"In addition to the Ford F-150’s alleged forthcoming 4.8-liter, Reuters reports that some of Ford’s investment will go toward a new, fuel-efficient large engine for the Super Duty."

So they're investing in two engine designs.

 

Really I was just referring to the lack of direct/dual injection and variable displacement. It's obviously no slouch, seeing as it offers competitive power and efficiency without those technologies, but I expected to see them earlier from Ford's V8.

In fact, I expected Ford to let the Coyote fade into obsolescence for a slow phase-out while putting all the R&D into the EB V6s, which appeared to be the case before seeing this article.

Long live the V8!

 

That wouldn't have made much financial sense. The Coyote was a brand new design for the 2011 model year, compared with the 3.5L EcoBoost that is an evolution of the existing V6 that came out three years prior. Why would they go through the expense to design a new engine and drop it so soon after? Every engine I can think of has had around a 20-year lifecycle, and I'd be surprised to see the Coyote disappear that much sooner.

 

If you noticed my wording, I said "fade into obsolescence for a slow phase-out" meaning they would perhaps continue producing the Coyote, largely unchanged for the next 7-10 years, instead putting money into making the EBs the clear choice and eventually retiring the V8 platform.

It's unclear from the article if the proposed 4.8L is a generational revision of the Coyote or a new engine entirely (probably the former), but either way, I'm happy to see they are still investing in the advancement of the V8 platform.

 

Good speculation, but based on what we know, this may just be a refinement of the existing 5.0 design. What sorts of things might they be changing besides the displacement? Possibly bore/stroke geometry, maybe CGI block, maybe robustness of the bottom end to better enable an EcoBoost variant. We could go on and on. And I suspect we probably will.

 

The Coyote was designed and put into production before the EPA released the next gen of CAFE standards, which are going to get extremely difficult to meet, and will require every trick in the book. A few tenths of a MPG might not matter to you and I, but due to the way CAFE works, and because half ton trucks are so popular, every tenth matters a lot to the manufacturers. It's really going to suck for people driving used vehicles 10-20 years from now, because they are going to get really expensive to service, with their DI, variable displacement, 10 speed transmissions, etc. And if you think that Trump will change anything, that's highly unlikely. Even if he did, the automakers are already designing to meet the new standards, and if Trump rescinded the new standards, I guarantee that the treehugger groups would sue, and it would be tied up in court for many years (with the new standards remaining in place until it's settled, by which time we will likely have a different president).

 

No more political discussion!

I for one am glad to see that the V-8 will live on. I'm not surprised that the 5.0L is going away or getting severely revised, it hasn't exactly been problem free.

 

Copy that, but I didn't bring it up to have a political discussion; I was only trying to explain the reason for some of the powertrain decisions that they are making. Like it or not, politics are a huge part of it, and the head of the EPA is appointed by the President (and takes his/her orders from him). I'm an avid snowmobiler, and the EPA has really affected us there, too. But unlike cars and trucks, our current emissions standards are the only ones on the horizon, and we don't have a CAFE standard (thankfully). It's going to get progressively more difficult for cars and trucks, especially around 2025 (which is only 8 model years away).

 

Given the 5.0 nets better MPG than the 3.5 and murders the GM, Toyota, Nissan and RAM V8's in terms of MPG. I am sure CAFE isn't the reason. Besides the fact nothing is set in stone and it wouldn't be prudent on Ford's part to drop the 5.0 moniker in the Mustang platform.

And to even suggest the Coyote is "behind the times?" Really? Like a pushrod V8 from GM or RAM is somehow superior?

Josh

 

I wonder if it will have deleted Camshafts and electronic Valves.

 

You are sure? You need to do some research on the upcoming CAFE standards then. It's going to get much tighter. They aren't using DI, variable displacement, aluminum bodies, 10-speed transmissions, etc. because people want that; they are doing it because of CAFE, period.


I agree that the Coyote is not "behind the times". And I, for one, do not want cylinder deactivation or DI, or a transmission that costs 4-5k for a rebuild. But like I said, those CAFE standards are not going away, and are going to get worse.

 

Somebody has to be the first, but I'll bet the first one will be a 4-cylinder car, not a F150. Just a hunch. And there haven't been any rumors about it.

 

I think that's likely. My main point was that the 5.0L isn't an old design that's nearing the end of its lifecycle. Lots of folks still think the 5.0L has something to do with their grandfather's 302 of yore.

Now THAT would be cool! I suspect Delta Echo is right though, the F150 is too big of a profit center to screw up with new technology that goes awry. Turbos and direct injection have been around for quite some time, but this is truly new tech that's never been put into production yet. I certainly hope for something like this in the future.

 

I wasn't trying to stir anything up; I chose my truck based largely on the Coyote's performance, and I love my engine/truck. But all things considered, including its low curb weight, I think the Ford could be better vs the competition.

Also, it's hard to say the F150 5.0 "murders" Ram and Chevy in terms of mileage.

For 2015 MY:
Ram 5.7L : 15/21mpg Fuelly average: 15.6mpg
Chevy 5.3L : 16/22mpg Fuelly average: 17.2mpg
Chevy 6.2L : 15/21mpg Fuelly average: 17.0mpg
Ford 5.0L : 15/21mpg Fuelly average: 16.0mpg

The 5.0L is certainly in the ballpark (and my overall favorite powertrain), but the Hemi has been putting down more torque since it's introduction in 2003, and holds a notable power (hp&tq) lead after some relatively minor revisions in 2009 (2 years pre-Coyote, I'd note). The Chevy 6.2L has a huge power advantage over the Coyote and does it without sacrificing fuel mileage, which I attribute to the DI and "Active Fuel Management."

All this to say that the 5.0L isn't positioned as the F150's flagship engine, and at least to me, it has felt that way. So I'm very happy to see they are not giving up on the V8 just yet.