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'79 f250 351m 4x4...Getting all the parts together to replace everything along the cooling path. Most of the parts I'm using are just OE replacement, yes I got the right thermostat (thanks to FTE). I decided on the 3-row champion radiator, at least I thought.
Their website provided a dimension picture and I went out to the truck to compare and was shocked to find its about 2" too wide and almost 3" too tall. I came back to this site and did a search and saw that people were referring to modifying their core support to install the radiator but couldn't find a specific thread on it. One guy said he was glad he was a welder, another made it seem like he did some really simple hardware changes and continued on with his day. That's two extremes and I'm really not sure what I'm getting into.
Can anyone give me specifics on what needs modified and how to do it?
If you ordered the correct one there is NO MODIFICATION needed. I have one of their 3 core for now...might go 4 core now that they make them when my frame off restoration is completed.
They may have sent you the wrong one? I just measured mine and it is 25" high and about 29.75" to the outside of the largest flange.
They attach to the core support in a slightly different fashion than the stock radiator. The larger flanges go towards the front of the truck. If you look in your core support there will be 4 openings for clip nuts (2 on each side). They will match up perfectly to holes on the large flange side of the radiator if you have the right radiator.
I didn't order it yet because I measured my truck compared to their website measurements and there's a difference like I explained. Unfortunately they don't give measurements for both flange sides if one is bigger than the other and perhaps that's where the confusion lies.
On my '78 F250/400 I ordered the Champion radiator and it fit fine with stock shroud. Works fine also.
In general, core dimensions, overall dimensions and mount hole dimensions will be different. Comparison to OE or mounting hole dimensions needs to be "apples to apples".
Thanks for the help guys, not sure what they were talking about in the other thread that threw me off so much. I ordered it a few minutes ago.
And special thanks to tabascom, I saved 9.95 and the shipping charges by buying it on ebay. It wouldn't have even crossed my mind to look there, I was going to buy it direct from their website. Thanks for the extra $30!
Now I gotta pull the heater core to figure out exactly which style I have so I can buy a copper one off of eBay NOS, damn these are hard to find!
I'm a big rock auto fan, but they don't carry them anymore. I tried literally every parts store I could think of, couldn't find a thing in brass. eBay is the only place I can find them and the sellers know they have a rare find, so they go for over $50. I still think its worth it to do the heater core part of the project once.
I hate to leave threads unfinished, so here we go...
Yes, I ordered the correct radiator from Champion (PN# CC433). No, it did NOT fit without issue. I did more research through Google and think I figured out what's going on. Supposedly, the core supports in non-a/c trucks (someone also suggested trucks with the 300 stock as well) aren't as wide at the radiator opening as other trucks of the same years. Mine came with the 351m stock but did not come with A/C.
I decided it looked like I could cut the core support back some on the driver's side with a cutting wheel without weakening anything and a couple of people on Bronco forums said they had to do the same. There are still mounting holes for where the radiator will now mount after I make my cuts. The radiator will then fit with no issue. I'm not sure if the lower hose will line up like it should, but the top hose looks good to go. See picture below.
Driver's side proposed cuts
Passenger side core support
So again I ask has anyone had to do some modifying and have any tips for me before I dig in?
The cutting seems straightforward, but I definitely need some ideas as far as how to mount up my shroud to the radiator. As you can see it in the above picture lacks the necessary width. I'd like to avoid tacky unsecure things such as zip-ties which is all I've really thought of so far. Its super cold winter here in PA so I also don't want to hit a pick and pull right now.
Okay, mine fit just like burnthelight88's did. '78 F-250 4x4, factory plain-Jane with a 351M/4 speed, no A/C. the passenger side bolted up just fine, the driver's side lined up perfectly with a set of holes that were already there, and have never had a bolt in them before. You COULD trim the support out, I did not (my radiator was leaking bad, and I needed the pickup - it got quickie-d).
The shroud was basically the same deal, the passenger side matched the holes in the new radiator mounts, and centered up on the fan exactly the same as the original, but the drivers side was long on the radiator by the same amount as the difference in the radiator mount holes (top-to-bottom, they line up perfectly, the shroud is just about 3" too narrow). In other words, in the above picture, if you slide the shroud over to the passenger side and put the bolts in, it is in the correct location -
So mine now has a couple little flatirons from the shroud mount holes on the new radiator over to the mount tabs on the original shroud. Probably not the most efficient setup fan/cooling wise that I could have, but it works just fine - but I never had a heating problem before. I did not measure the lower neck, I should - still have the old radiator laying there. My hoses were all shot and got replaced, and the parts-store replacement lower hose reached just fine, but again, I didn't measure it either - seems like they're usually cut a little longer than OE, so maybe that is why it fit. But, at any rate, it was a pretty easy install, even though it was different. But be aware, you will have to rig something to make the driver's side of the shroud tie down solid.
I don't know if a factory 400 pickup would have the same core support and radiator as a 351M, or if an auto was the same, or an a/c cab? There must have been a radiator that used those other 2 outside holes, why else would they be there, but I guess I've never measured any other one I've had (and they were all 4x4's with 351's or 400's). If that's the case, a junkyard shroud off that bigger radiator should fit perfect - not a concern on this one, since it's a farm truck and doesn't have a heating problem, but there's probably one available.
Jake, you bring up a great point that I hadn't thought of yet. I was picturing the shroud centered on the radiator, but it won't be able to without being scraped up by the fan.
I think I'm going to definitely do the trimming of the core support and then based on my new realization, look for a new fan shroud in the JY when the weather gets warmer. For now I guess two bolts and 2 zip ties will hold the shroud in place
Mine ran for a couple weeks with a combination of a bungee cord and a hunk of baler twine until I finally "made" brackets - it matched the rest of the pickup, though. Like said, there's about 3" of radiator that doesn't get really used with the factory shroud, and it'd take a pretty good remodel to really make it work properly across the whole thing. I was going to cut it in the middle and add a chunk (it's cracked there already and has a piece of valley tin pop-riveted over it), but figured it would be too big of a hole over the fan and be even less effective than it is now.
10-21-2016, 05:12 PM
Like said, there's about 3" of radiator that doesn't get really used with the factory shroud, and it'd take a pretty good remodel to really make it work properly across the whole thing. I was going to cut it in the middle and add a chunk (it's cracked there already and has a piece of valley tin pop-riveted over it), but figured it would be too big of a hole over the fan and be even less effective than it is now.