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Hell lets go with all three above options.
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1989 F250 fuel and lack of power problems
#1
08-02-2016, 08:32 PM
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1989 F250 fuel and lack of power problems
New forum member here (although I read the forum all the time -- it is like electronic crack). I love all the tips I learned here but now I am stuck and had to move from being a behind the scenes lurker to actively asking for help. I bought a 1989 Ford F250 HD 5 speed lock in 4X4 with a 5.0 EFI power plant and dual gas tanks. Beaut of a truck and I love it but since I drove it home it has plagued me with fuel issues. When I got the truck the PO said that the truck would kick out on power after it warmed up a bit and that after 10 or so miles of driving it would limp along like it was starving for gas. He figured it was fuel problems and put in a new high pressure electronic fuel pump on the rail and a fuel filter but the problem persisted. He was a landscaper and needed the truck daily for work towing lawn mowers and decided to sell it and buy a new truck for his business. It sat for a couple of months till he listed it and I bought it. I towed it home and figured it may have been a bad in-tank fuel pump (foolishly thinking both went at the same time due to bad gas). I replaced the forward tank's fuel pump (the low pressure one in the tank) and took it for a ride. It drove perfectly for the first 15 minutes (well beyond warm up) to get to a home depot about 10 miles away and went in and did my shopping but on my trip home the problem persisted as I felt i lost power and had to throw on the flashers and drive home limping in low gear with high revs. That got me thinking it may be some electronic issue with the timing and not a vacuum issue as that would be present right away and not only after 10 miles. The timing was in fact retarded 5+ degrees beyond the required setting and the rotor/cap had some arching marks in it so I figured the low gear (high revs) was why it was running but not in the higher gears (the high revs forcing it to be advanced). I reset the timing but still had the same issue so I threw in a new distributor so that I could eliminate faulty Hall pickup, rotor, cap and the electronic advance unit. Same issue... So I went back to the fuel. I put in a new fuel filter.. no change, a new rear tank low pressure fuel pump (in the tank) so as to eliminate that it was a bad forward tank pump... no change. I replaced the fuel pressure regulator just before the fuel rail on the injector... no change (son of a bitch). I replaced the two electronic relays (the fuel pump and the electronic injection computer thingy one) no change (OK, starting not to be fun). I put in a new MAP sensor... no change (Now I am getting the feeling that the truck is just trying to **** me off). OK now I am fully committed so I got a new EGR and a new EGR position sensor.. GOD DAMN IT, no change. Thank god there is a three day waiting period on getting a handgun!!!
This is killing me. the worst part is I know I am talking to experts here who are going to tell me, "hey dummy, did you check X?" and I will probably have a small coronary which will put me out of my misery because I missed something incredibly obvious. I just cant figure why I can drive 10 miles, stop for 10 minutes and have to lumber back home for the return trip.
Sorry about the long post but I have been on hold on the suicide hotline due to this power issue so I figured I had some time to kill.
Even if you don't have an answer, thanks for reading.
This is killing me. the worst part is I know I am talking to experts here who are going to tell me, "hey dummy, did you check X?" and I will probably have a small coronary which will put me out of my misery because I missed something incredibly obvious. I just cant figure why I can drive 10 miles, stop for 10 minutes and have to lumber back home for the return trip.
Sorry about the long post but I have been on hold on the suicide hotline due to this power issue so I figured I had some time to kill.
Even if you don't have an answer, thanks for reading.
#2
08-02-2016, 10:20 PM
nobody's going to call you a dummy; we are all here to learn and we are at varying levels of skill. (although a few of us might roll our eyes at all the parts tossing 
).
even with all the new fuel system parts, it's still possible you have a fuel pressure issue. i would be checking fuel pressure and pulling codes before buying any more parts.
).even with all the new fuel system parts, it's still possible you have a fuel pressure issue. i would be checking fuel pressure and pulling codes before buying any more parts.
#4
08-03-2016, 08:42 AM
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I fully understand
Ha, my father told me the same thing. His quote was "At this rate why don't you just keep the steering wheel and build the rest of the truck around it". His sarcasm will be met with me choosing a crappy nursing home for him some day. But in all fairness the previous owner gave me the two new in-tank fuel pumps when I bought the truck and I had a new in the box distributor already sitting in my garage so the lay out wasn't that bad. In the end, I was only about $150 in parts for the other stuff which I snatched up on eBay. But I do fully appreciate that I went the wrong route in getting it solved (which it still isn't). The funny thing is that I restore old BMW motorcycles and I am the first to tell people to diagnose the problem first before fixing the problem. Seems I don't even listen to myself. Ain't that always the case.
Any thoughts?
I am not as familiar with the dual tank reservoir switching valve. Could that be an issue? would that be something that would cause issues after ~10 miles of driving, a stop followed by driving home?
Any thoughts?
I am not as familiar with the dual tank reservoir switching valve. Could that be an issue? would that be something that would cause issues after ~10 miles of driving, a stop followed by driving home?
#5
08-03-2016, 09:14 AM
Yes you could have crud in the screw off cup on the bottom of the dual tank reservoir switching valve causing this problem.
But as others have noted above you need to put a fuel pressure gauge on it and tape it to a place you can see it to see if it is fuel pressure or not before diving in and replacing anything else.
Also check the codes and you need the codes after the KOEO is done and you get the space code then the CM codes will flash out and they will tell you the most of what is going on while on the road.
Any codes you post we need to know if they are KOEO, CM or KOER codes.
#7
08-03-2016, 09:27 AM
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I pulled the KOEO and CM codes when I first got the truck (didn't do the KOER codes) but I don't remember the actual code numbers but remember that the codes were minor things. I will pull them again today when I swing home for lunch and post them here. Again, thanks for all of the help. It is appreciated. I always find these forums invaluable.
Cheers.
Cheers.
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#9
08-03-2016, 12:24 PM
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OK I ran the tests.
KOEO
I got 11 twice (System Pass) So that is good.
Single long light (KOEO done reading CM next)
For the continuous memory codes I got 29, 33, 29, 33
CM 29 is Insufficient Input From Vehicle Speed Sensor
CM 33 is EGR valve opening not detected.
Now when I did the KOER I got the four fast CEL flashes but no flashing lights after that. The engine revved up to 2k then down to 1500 for about 15 seconds, then back to 2000 and after another 15 seconds it dropped down to 800 (which is my idle). No additional lights. I would think that it would have given me an 11 if all was fine.
I also did the optional cylinder balance test (After the KOER test tap the throttle). Again no lights. I recall running this test in the past and getting nine flashes if all cylinders are in balance.
Now I haven't been using the truck much so I forgot that the 29 and 33 codes are what I got in the past. I can blame Budweiser for the poor memory on that. The 33 code is why I put in a brand new EGR and EGR position sensor. The speed sensor should not have much issue on the engine losing power I would imagine but I can be wrong. The speedo does work fine so I didn't give it much thought.
Any thoughts where to go on this? Is there a reason I am not getting the KOER codes?
Much obliged as always.
KOEO
I got 11 twice (System Pass) So that is good.
Single long light (KOEO done reading CM next)
For the continuous memory codes I got 29, 33, 29, 33
CM 29 is Insufficient Input From Vehicle Speed Sensor
CM 33 is EGR valve opening not detected.
Now when I did the KOER I got the four fast CEL flashes but no flashing lights after that. The engine revved up to 2k then down to 1500 for about 15 seconds, then back to 2000 and after another 15 seconds it dropped down to 800 (which is my idle). No additional lights. I would think that it would have given me an 11 if all was fine.
I also did the optional cylinder balance test (After the KOER test tap the throttle). Again no lights. I recall running this test in the past and getting nine flashes if all cylinders are in balance.
Now I haven't been using the truck much so I forgot that the 29 and 33 codes are what I got in the past. I can blame Budweiser for the poor memory on that. The 33 code is why I put in a brand new EGR and EGR position sensor. The speed sensor should not have much issue on the engine losing power I would imagine but I can be wrong. The speedo does work fine so I didn't give it much thought.
Any thoughts where to go on this? Is there a reason I am not getting the KOER codes?
Much obliged as always.
#10
08-03-2016, 12:38 PM
Mountain Pass
#11
08-03-2016, 12:47 PM
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Thanks for the quick response. There was a brand new TFI control module on the distributor that I put in the truck so I would think that should have been fine. Now the connectors that go to it may be crapped out and I am not sure how I would test this but my question is why would the TFI start acting up after I stop in a 10 mile drive (basically to home depot) park it for about 10 minutes then drive it home and halfway on my ride home it starts to act up? I would think that the TFI would be acting up right away. It is either a fuel or an electrical issue, no question.
Would a faulty TFI control module be the reason I am not getting KOER codes?
Cheers
Would a faulty TFI control module be the reason I am not getting KOER codes?
Cheers
#12
08-03-2016, 12:59 PM
Mountain Pass
I am going through relocating my TFI module from the distributor to a much cooler place on the fender well. I also have a 1989 with 5 speed, but 7.5L and it really makes no sense why they even put the TFI module on the distributor for 1989, as it is a closed-bowl type with the 'remote' TFI module made to be located away from the distributor!
Depending on the outside temperature, my problems never occurred within 10 minutes of driving, it usually took at least 15 minutes, depending on speed/continuity etc. If I drove on faster 50+ speeds, no issues usually, as there was plenty of air-flo.
But, as temperatures rose, the issues happened much sooner and took longer to cool so as to be able to drive again.
I would drive along for however distance, then the truck would act like it was losing power, running out of gas, etc. sometimes I would be able to crawl along or go slow, but in hotter temperature it just shut down. It would take anywhere from a half hour to hour before I could get it to start without issues.
Was the distributor actually new, or remanufactured? If remanufactured the sensors could be faulty?
Depending on the outside temperature, my problems never occurred within 10 minutes of driving, it usually took at least 15 minutes, depending on speed/continuity etc. If I drove on faster 50+ speeds, no issues usually, as there was plenty of air-flo.
But, as temperatures rose, the issues happened much sooner and took longer to cool so as to be able to drive again.
I would drive along for however distance, then the truck would act like it was losing power, running out of gas, etc. sometimes I would be able to crawl along or go slow, but in hotter temperature it just shut down. It would take anywhere from a half hour to hour before I could get it to start without issues.
Was the distributor actually new, or remanufactured? If remanufactured the sensors could be faulty?
#13
08-03-2016, 01:13 PM
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God your symptoms sound just like mine. I didn't make a link to temperature though.
It was a brand new distributor as was the connected TFI (they came pre-assembled). I am not sure it is the remote one though as I thought the remote TFI didn't have the three pins for hooking up to the Hall effect sensor on the distributor. the symptoms are identical before I replaced the distributor/TFI as after. I was under the impression that TFIs either worked or don't and that there was no middle ground meaning the failure wouldn't be intermittent (I could be fully wrong). Funny thing is that when I looked in the glove box upon buying the truck there was a used TFI in there meaning that the PO must have swapped it out also.
It was a brand new distributor as was the connected TFI (they came pre-assembled). I am not sure it is the remote one though as I thought the remote TFI didn't have the three pins for hooking up to the Hall effect sensor on the distributor. the symptoms are identical before I replaced the distributor/TFI as after. I was under the impression that TFIs either worked or don't and that there was no middle ground meaning the failure wouldn't be intermittent (I could be fully wrong). Funny thing is that when I looked in the glove box upon buying the truck there was a used TFI in there meaning that the PO must have swapped it out also.
#15
08-03-2016, 01:34 PM
Mountain Pass
You are correct, if you have the 3 pins that connect inside the distributor it is a open-bowl type, but, there are kits with heat sink and wiring that allows you to remove the module and mount it in a cooler place if you are having issues.
The problem is the module is mounted in the hottest part of the engine compartment.. on it's own, since it is an electronic amplifier it creates its own heat and gets quite warm by itself... then you add the engine and you get trouble.
Some never have problems, others, though, like me, are consistent.
Ever since purchasing the truck in 2001 I have had this issue. At first, it only happened occasionally... but enough that on 3 times I had the truck towed to 3 different shops... all 3 'fixed' things that had nothing to do with the problem.
The past 10 years I had medical issues so wasn't using truck that much but the problem seemed to get worse. I stopped driving the truck, used only when I had to, as more often than not, the issue would occur.
The last time I drove it, it was 100+ degrees out (2 weeks ago or so) and it was only about 12 or so minutes of city driving before the issues occurred. Let sit for about 45 minutes (at the dump) then was able to drive for about another 15 minutes before it happened again...sat for another 45 minutes ... started and ran fine for another 12 minutes... parked it at a store and left it, walked the remaining 12 blocks home and picked it up later that evening... haven't driven it since.
Actually, I'm quite excited to getting it done and going through and fixing it up... We were quite depressed as looking at what it would cost to get a decent truck... was VERY depressing
The problem is the module is mounted in the hottest part of the engine compartment.. on it's own, since it is an electronic amplifier it creates its own heat and gets quite warm by itself... then you add the engine and you get trouble.
Some never have problems, others, though, like me, are consistent.
Ever since purchasing the truck in 2001 I have had this issue. At first, it only happened occasionally... but enough that on 3 times I had the truck towed to 3 different shops... all 3 'fixed' things that had nothing to do with the problem.
The past 10 years I had medical issues so wasn't using truck that much but the problem seemed to get worse. I stopped driving the truck, used only when I had to, as more often than not, the issue would occur.
The last time I drove it, it was 100+ degrees out (2 weeks ago or so) and it was only about 12 or so minutes of city driving before the issues occurred. Let sit for about 45 minutes (at the dump) then was able to drive for about another 15 minutes before it happened again...sat for another 45 minutes ... started and ran fine for another 12 minutes... parked it at a store and left it, walked the remaining 12 blocks home and picked it up later that evening... haven't driven it since.
Actually, I'm quite excited to getting it done and going through and fixing it up... We were quite depressed as looking at what it would cost to get a decent truck... was VERY depressing
God your symptoms sound just like mine. I didn't make a link to temperature though.
It was a brand new distributor as was the connected TFI (they came pre-assembled). I am not sure it is the remote one though as I thought the remote TFI didn't have the three pins for hooking up to the Hall effect sensor on the distributor. the symptoms are identical before I replaced the distributor/TFI as after. I was under the impression that TFIs either worked or don't and that there was no middle ground meaning the failure wouldn't be intermittent (I could be fully wrong). Funny thing is that when I looked in the glove box upon buying the truck there was a used TFI in there meaning that the PO must have swapped it out also.
It was a brand new distributor as was the connected TFI (they came pre-assembled). I am not sure it is the remote one though as I thought the remote TFI didn't have the three pins for hooking up to the Hall effect sensor on the distributor. the symptoms are identical before I replaced the distributor/TFI as after. I was under the impression that TFIs either worked or don't and that there was no middle ground meaning the failure wouldn't be intermittent (I could be fully wrong). Funny thing is that when I looked in the glove box upon buying the truck there was a used TFI in there meaning that the PO must have swapped it out also.