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Another spark plug post. I know, I know...

  #16  
Old 08-11-2016, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeo0o0o0
I have an '07 5.4 and have changed the plugs twice (208,000+ miles) and have not broken any.
Here's how I do it:
First, I run a can of Seafoam in each of the last three full tanks of fuel before the change.
This is what my dealer does.....they say Seafoam has saved them so many headaches. They charge $100 a hole to replace plugs, NOT including if one breaks.
 
  #17  
Old 08-11-2016, 03:36 PM
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Well, IMHO, I'm not a big fan of Seafoam and here's why....

Seafoam is a "Highly Corrosive" product and is clearly spelled out in the MSDS....something I would not have any desire to expose to fuel injectors, sensors (including O2) & hoses of any type. There are those that will state "Used it for years & no problem", and very true, but it simply violates every basic OEM specified maintenance/repair procedure & law of chemistry in the books.....

1. no mfg including domestic & imports (including BMW, MB, Porsche) advises using any product like this (or similar) for any service work on a fuel injected system.

2. While there is no recommend service for EFI systems - specific to injectors, BG products does make a system/products that is used by many dealers & EFI specific shops. I like & use their throttle body cleaner, but I typically remove the TBS before application....

There is lot of things that many people do to their engines, that is well document "Not to do"..............like I said, it's basic chemistry........that which we were all taught......with any product like this, always read the MSDS.....

Seafoam contains

1. Pale oil......cheap (read as inexpensive) refinery distillate (Why somebody would fog their cat and o2 sensors with plumes of lubricant is beyond me.)

2. Napthalene......which is dry cleaning fluid, an Aromatic which means it is a "toxin" affecting directly the liver, kidneys, spleen, etc.

3. Isopropyl alcohol......not good for an engine (as this is a mix of (low %) alcohol -) and the rest water

Sea Foam Sales Company - SDS

As listed under "Other important hazards", It also has "teratogenic" properties......Meaning there is an effect upon your DNA...meaning you are ok but you future kids come out "screwed up", cell structure abnormalities, cancers, etc....and yes, you are sucking this in when it dumps out your exhaust pipe....or if you are driving down the road to clear it out, to your neighbor whose behind you....and there is "no cure" for this.

Listed under "Hazardous Combustion Products" (meaning when its burning), it produces sulpher oxides (just what you want....feeding sulpher particulates into the cats) & phosphorus compounds.....this is not even close to being "good" for any plastic, o-ring, metal (like pistons, piston rings, residual that might bypass the piston rings and make it into the oil, e-sensor, the honey-combs inside the cat's. While the MSDS does not spec the ph of the product, if you measure the exhaust at the point of discharge, I'll bet you'll crap in your pants when you see the ph change…..and for those who may think that the engine combustion will burn all this up....remember, poisons are destroyed at 1,800 degrees and toxins are destroyed at 2,500 degrees F......not even the cats are close to this.
 
  #18  
Old 08-15-2016, 05:42 PM
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Well, I finally got the change to replace the plugs this weekend and thought I'd post my results, for whatever it's worth.

I had read the TSB and many posts of others experiences, including the ones who have used the "impact wrench on a cold engine" method. I decided to try an experiment and do one side with the impact and the other with the TSB method. I did run one tank of Seafoam-treated gas and about 3/4 of another tank treated with Kreen, Kroil's fuel/carbon buildup treatment.

On Saturday, I started with the impact method on the driver's side. Got the three front plugs out with no problem. The back plug (of course ) broke. So I went to the parts store and got the Lisle tool. I was out of time so I quit for the day.

On Sunday, I pulled the broken plug out with no problem. The Lisle tool worked great. I cracked the four passenger plugs and put some of the Motorcraft carb cleaner that the TSB calls for in there. I took a long lunch, about 2 hours, to let it soak. Came back and it didn't look like any of the cleaner had soaked down. Maybe it had, but not enough that I could tell. Cracked them another 1/8 inch or so, and it began to drain down. I let it soak another 15-20 minutes and started to work them back and forth.

I got all four out with no breakage. They were relatively easy to remove, a little squeaking and popping, but not too much resistance. As I pulled each plug out and looked at it, the carbon on the lower shaft was pretty much completely liquefied. That Motorcraft carb cleaner did a good job. I mention that because I've read that other people have used other products too.

So my results would indicate that the TSB method is better than the impact method. But I will say that the broken plug may have been caused by the fact that I had a hard time getting to that back plug with the impact. I had to use a swivel, and I'm pretty sure that I put some sideways pressure on the plug that could have been just enough to break it. If I had to do it again though, I would use the TSB method.

Took the truck for a drive and it idled and ran great, no more low load jerking or rough idle. It had developed a rough idle and thrown a code that the number 5 cyl was misfiring. I replaced the coils as well.
 
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  #19  
Old 08-15-2016, 07:57 PM
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Sideways pressure will break a fastener off above the thread engagement. The plugs break below the thread engagement so the swivel did not cause failure. Lack of solvent on the plug's nose caused failure. Glad to see that the extraction tool worked well.

Glad to see that you noticed the solvent was not getting past the seal so you turned the plug a little more. Just enough to get the solvent to sink is the secret.
 
  #20  
Old 06-02-2020, 05:40 AM
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I had the identical problem with a 2006 Navigator, when using Autolite spark plugs. When inspecting the cylinder with a bore scope, I could see evidence of melted metal on the top of the piston and some light scoring on the cylinder wall. The initial installation of the plug employed the application of anti seize compound to the threads of the spark plugs. The plug which failed was loose upon removal, even though the installer used a torque wrench to tighten down all of the plugs during installation... Ford only used these spark plugs for 3 years, which is unusual for Ford, as they tend to invest in technology which they intend to last decades. In this specific case, this design obviously did not meet design intent and resulted in many customer complaints related to dissimilar metals and their reaction to repeated heat cycles, and atmospheric conditions (aka air quality)
A technical bulletin was released (its in these threads) which required the 10mm bore shield to be treated with anti seize prior to re installation of the spark plugs. No instruction was given by Ford engineering, which indicated anti seize was intended to be applied to the threads of the spark plug. As a mater of fact most spark plug threads today are treated with Nickle which provides anti sieze properties, therefore treatment with more anti seize is not necessary.

So, what is the cause of destruction of the ground electrode. The answer is poor electrical connection, and loose spark plugs. Spark plugs operate on very high voltages (capable of voltages exceeding 100k volts). Most coils fire in the 50k to 60k voltage range, but due to anticipated wear and gap increase over time, are capable of twice to three times that voltage. A voltage of that magnitude will find a ground where ever that might be possible. Just as you experience arc during welding, where ever high voltage finds ground it will arc, and if such ground is poor, the the higher voltage capability of the coil is released to overcome the pathway to ground. What this means is that instead of a 60k arc firing the plug, the highest capability of the coil (130k to 150k) is deployed to fire the plug. Spark plugs are not designed to operate at maximum coil voltage for any length of time. The heat of resistance to voltage seeking ground is what destroys the ground electrode on the spark plug. The plug ground electrode physically reaches the melting point of the material at this point, it melts away initially in the center then moves to each side, destroying what might be remaining of the electrode, as higher and higher voltage seeks a ground point.

There is both design flaw and installer flaw related to the destruction of these spark plugs.
The design flaw is related to the 10mm tip which allows the plug material to interact with the head material, creating a condition where these plugs seize in the cylinder head bore Meteorology (corrosion) . This is specifically why this design was no longer used by Ford after 3 years of initial deployment.

The installer flaw is to improperly treating the spark plugs with anti seize compound. It follows the false notion that if a little bit is good then a whole bunch more must be far better.... Only use anti seize on the 10mm bore shield, not the ground electrode, nor the seat nor the threads. Second is to make sure the threads, seat and cylinder head bore are cleaned before installing replacement spark plugs, and that the cylinders are vacuumed cleaned to assure the cylinders are free of debris from cleaning. The job is already painful and adding more steps to the process makes it more tedious, I am aware, however Ford is not the only vehicle manufacturer which is experience these types of spark plug failures, its prevalent in Subaru vehicles as well. The Subaru owners have learned how to properly treat the plugs, and clean the bores, threads and seats, and decrease frequency of plug inspection, which eliminates further issues.

Many of the vehicles are just now reaching the point where their 100k plugs need changing and this is where people start to experience the issue with damaged ground electrodes. One is better off to attempt to remove and replace the spark plugs in these vehicles as soon as possible, at the lowest mileage (frequency) possible, and continue to replace them continually at low mileage intervals (probably once per year, which should be about 15k to 30k miles). Overcoming the design flaw will require a vastly increased plug change frequency. At east the owner should remove the plugs every 10k to 15k miles, inspect, clean, re-apply anti seize to the 10mm bore shield and reinstall the plugs. The higher frequency of plug removal and inspection will assure plugs do not start to seize in the cylinder head bores.

The prudent vehicle owner will start this process at 5k miles and note the condition of the 10mm bore shield and then start to increase the plug inspection interval (frequency) by 1k mile intervals until they discover the point at which their spark plugs start to show signs of metallurgy (corrosion) occurring between the cylinder head and plug. Afterword a schedule of re inspection can be adequately established which would be the point at which an inspection indicated no metallurgy (corrosion) had occurred. It would be expected that the location of the vehicle and the air quality in your specific region will affect the frequency of your results.... Those who live in more corrosive environments (salt air for instance) should expect much shorter frequency of the occurrence of metallurgy and might find their inspection frequency to be even less than 5k miles. If you live in such an area, I would suggest you start with an initial frequency of 2k miles for plug inspection, and work upward from that point.

Hope this helps you deal with this issue effectively and put this spark plug failure to rest.....
 
  #21  
Old 06-02-2020, 08:07 AM
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I respectfully disagree with some of this . the orig problem plugs were 2 piece and poorly weakly joined . Carbon from combustion would fill the gap between the head and the tip seizing the tip . no amount of additive could get in there to burn that tough carbon out. So ford tsb called for hi temp 2400 degree nickel anti seize on tip only. But most of us put a very thin coat on threads also and torque them down 25 to 28 foot pounds . But the tsb also called for soaking old plug with carb cleaner with the hope that 1/8 loosening would allow it to pass threads and melt carbon even overnight it would fail on some plugs . but the anti sieze would work for the next removal, Then they put on the sp 515 replacement plug which showed a blue weld at the junction . Well that created a fail point and plugs were failing out of the box so they redesigned and quietly put on the good plug the sp546 . They never told anybody what they were doing driving some people nuts believing they were getting a bandit plug.Never admit you are wrong --attorneys speak .
As far as the burning tips of the plug was mainly caused by poorly torqued plugs that loosened and that hot carbon was kept white hot by the blowby gases flowing past the plug acting like a cutting torch- hot gases going up the stem during compression/exhaust while oxygen was sucked in during the intake stroke. . Ford had increased the torque to 25-28 foot pounds. Too many people don't use a torque wrench nor do they self check each one for tight.
Add to that some people wont change the boots on plugs or do a clean install or don't do dielectric grease properly -- lots of misfire problems .
Me after the broken plugs - I run champion 7989 double platinum every 60k . Mc plugs are not double and I avoided the sp515 problem . no failures at 220k . I am not against sp 546 but hey this works for me . I understand your theory but no loose plugs no damage to electrodes seems to be the rule .
 
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