Need truck for towing – tapping ur experience
#16
07-23-2016, 09:23 PM
Laughing Gas
If you plan on towing an 11,000# RV all over the country, then you need a 4x4 diesel. Do not even consider a gas truck or a 2wd truck.
At some point in your journey, you will encounter a muddy campground, an otherwise impassable dirt road, or chain control trying to cross a mountain pass in the winter. You need a 4x4 in all of these situations, especially if towing a trailer.
The diesel makes sense from an economic perspective and a power one. Economically, they are more fuel-efficient than a gas motor. I did a pretty detailed analysis in late 2014 when I was deciding between the two. You can probably find the thread I started on it. I think it was in the Excursion forum. Power-wise, there is no comparison pulling a heavy trailer like that when you get up past 4000 or 5000 feet. The air is much thinner up there, and a naturally aspirated motor struggles more and more. Because a diesel is turbocharged, it mostly negates this effect. The comparison becomes more pronounced the higher you go, and you will regret buying a truck with a gas motor when pulling your trailer at 25 MPH in the right lane with the hazards on at 9000 feet.
So now you have to decide which diesel engine you like. There are quite a few:
7.3L (1999-03): Legendary reliability. The transmission is a little weak but you can extend its life quite a bit with a larger cooler and a filter. Plenty of people run theirs to 300k and past on the original transmission so YMMV.
6.0L (2003-2009): These engines got a bad rap thanks to a bunch of problems at launch. Most of these issues have been resolved through updated tuning, and a few others have good aftermarket solutions. If you a selective, do your research, and spend the money for a process known as "bullet-proofing", you can end up with an engine that's very nearly as reliable as the 7.3L. As a bonus, the 6.0L comes with a much better and stronger transmission.
The 6.4L and 6.7L are engines I would avoid altogether unless you have very deep pockets. The 6.4L just wasn't a very good engine, and the 6.7L (2011-present) doesn't have the durability of previous engines and five-figure repair bills are common. If you plan on keeping the truck for a very long time, then I would especially avoid either of these two engines.
If I was going to buy a tow rig and pull 11,000# all over the country, I would find a nice '05 or newer truck with a 6.0 and have it bulletproofed.
Currently I have a 2000 Excursion with the 7.3L and I pull an 8,500# RV all over the US. I've been to both coasts and back and while I don't regret my decision, I would probably go with a 6.0 if I had to do it again.
BTW my truck has performed MOST impressively as a tow rig for almost a year and half now. It does everything I ask it to without complaint. Mechanical problems have been non-existent.
At some point in your journey, you will encounter a muddy campground, an otherwise impassable dirt road, or chain control trying to cross a mountain pass in the winter. You need a 4x4 in all of these situations, especially if towing a trailer.
The diesel makes sense from an economic perspective and a power one. Economically, they are more fuel-efficient than a gas motor. I did a pretty detailed analysis in late 2014 when I was deciding between the two. You can probably find the thread I started on it. I think it was in the Excursion forum. Power-wise, there is no comparison pulling a heavy trailer like that when you get up past 4000 or 5000 feet. The air is much thinner up there, and a naturally aspirated motor struggles more and more. Because a diesel is turbocharged, it mostly negates this effect. The comparison becomes more pronounced the higher you go, and you will regret buying a truck with a gas motor when pulling your trailer at 25 MPH in the right lane with the hazards on at 9000 feet.
So now you have to decide which diesel engine you like. There are quite a few:
7.3L (1999-03): Legendary reliability. The transmission is a little weak but you can extend its life quite a bit with a larger cooler and a filter. Plenty of people run theirs to 300k and past on the original transmission so YMMV.
6.0L (2003-2009): These engines got a bad rap thanks to a bunch of problems at launch. Most of these issues have been resolved through updated tuning, and a few others have good aftermarket solutions. If you a selective, do your research, and spend the money for a process known as "bullet-proofing", you can end up with an engine that's very nearly as reliable as the 7.3L. As a bonus, the 6.0L comes with a much better and stronger transmission.
The 6.4L and 6.7L are engines I would avoid altogether unless you have very deep pockets. The 6.4L just wasn't a very good engine, and the 6.7L (2011-present) doesn't have the durability of previous engines and five-figure repair bills are common. If you plan on keeping the truck for a very long time, then I would especially avoid either of these two engines.
If I was going to buy a tow rig and pull 11,000# all over the country, I would find a nice '05 or newer truck with a 6.0 and have it bulletproofed.
Currently I have a 2000 Excursion with the 7.3L and I pull an 8,500# RV all over the US. I've been to both coasts and back and while I don't regret my decision, I would probably go with a 6.0 if I had to do it again.
BTW my truck has performed MOST impressively as a tow rig for almost a year and half now. It does everything I ask it to without complaint. Mechanical problems have been non-existent.
Now those 2 comments gave me quite a laugh.
Thanks for the giggle.
Says the guy pulling 12k with a 6.2 gas with the much maligned and never researched 3.73 gear sets.
#17
07-23-2016, 10:43 PM
Cargo Master
[QUOTE=6.0L (2003-2009): These engines got a bad rap thanks to a bunch of problems at launch. Most of these issues have been resolved through updated tuning, and a few others have good aftermarket solutions. If you a selective, do your research, and spend the money for a process known as "bullet-proofing", you can end up with an engine that's very nearly as reliable as the 7.3L. As a bonus, the 6.0L comes with a much better and stronger transmission.
[/QUOTE]
Found in SD trucks from 2003-2007. I would never trust a 6.0 for full time cross country towing. It would never be worth risk of roadside breakdown for me. My friends own a diesel shop, all year 6.0's come in on tow trucks, not just early ones. I have also seen "bullet proof" 6.0's return in tow. The 6.0 was the pioneer for "cab off" repairs.
With the 7.3 becoming so hard to find lightly used, if one must own a diesel, get the 6.7.
[/QUOTE]
Found in SD trucks from 2003-2007. I would never trust a 6.0 for full time cross country towing. It would never be worth risk of roadside breakdown for me. My friends own a diesel shop, all year 6.0's come in on tow trucks, not just early ones. I have also seen "bullet proof" 6.0's return in tow. The 6.0 was the pioneer for "cab off" repairs.
With the 7.3 becoming so hard to find lightly used, if one must own a diesel, get the 6.7.
#18
07-24-2016, 12:00 AM
#19
07-24-2016, 09:43 AM
#20
07-24-2016, 10:45 AM
Lead Driver
If you plan on towing an 11,000# RV all over the country, then you need a 4x4 diesel. Do not even consider a gas truck or a 2wd truck.
At some point in your journey, you will encounter a muddy campground, an otherwise impassable dirt road, or chain control trying to cross a mountain pass in the winter. You need a 4x4 in all of these situations, especially if towing a trailer.
The diesel makes sense from an economic perspective and a power one. Economically, they are more fuel-efficient than a gas motor. I did a pretty detailed analysis in late 2014 when I was deciding between the two. You can probably find the thread I started on it. I think it was in the Excursion forum. Power-wise, there is no comparison pulling a heavy trailer like that when you get up past 4000 or 5000 feet. The air is much thinner up there, and a naturally aspirated motor struggles more and more. Because a diesel is turbocharged, it mostly negates this effect. The comparison becomes more pronounced the higher you go, and you will regret buying a truck with a gas motor when pulling your trailer at 25 MPH in the right lane with the hazards on at 9000 feet.
So now you have to decide which diesel engine you like. There are quite a few:
7.3L (1999-03): Legendary reliability. The transmission is a little weak but you can extend its life quite a bit with a larger cooler and a filter. Plenty of people run theirs to 300k and past on the original transmission so YMMV.
6.0L (2003-2009): These engines got a bad rap thanks to a bunch of problems at launch. Most of these issues have been resolved through updated tuning, and a few others have good aftermarket solutions. If you a selective, do your research, and spend the money for a process known as "bullet-proofing", you can end up with an engine that's very nearly as reliable as the 7.3L. As a bonus, the 6.0L comes with a much better and stronger transmission.
The 6.4L and 6.7L are engines I would avoid altogether unless you have very deep pockets. The 6.4L just wasn't a very good engine, and the 6.7L (2011-present) doesn't have the durability of previous engines and five-figure repair bills are common. If you plan on keeping the truck for a very long time, then I would especially avoid either of these two engines.
If I was going to buy a tow rig and pull 11,000# all over the country, I would find a nice '05 or newer truck with a 6.0 and have it bulletproofed.
Currently I have a 2000 Excursion with the 7.3L and I pull an 8,500# RV all over the US. I've been to both coasts and back and while I don't regret my decision, I would probably go with a 6.0 if I had to do it again.
BTW my truck has performed MOST impressively as a tow rig for almost a year and half now. It does everything I ask it to without complaint. Mechanical problems have been non-existent.
At some point in your journey, you will encounter a muddy campground, an otherwise impassable dirt road, or chain control trying to cross a mountain pass in the winter. You need a 4x4 in all of these situations, especially if towing a trailer.
The diesel makes sense from an economic perspective and a power one. Economically, they are more fuel-efficient than a gas motor. I did a pretty detailed analysis in late 2014 when I was deciding between the two. You can probably find the thread I started on it. I think it was in the Excursion forum. Power-wise, there is no comparison pulling a heavy trailer like that when you get up past 4000 or 5000 feet. The air is much thinner up there, and a naturally aspirated motor struggles more and more. Because a diesel is turbocharged, it mostly negates this effect. The comparison becomes more pronounced the higher you go, and you will regret buying a truck with a gas motor when pulling your trailer at 25 MPH in the right lane with the hazards on at 9000 feet.
So now you have to decide which diesel engine you like. There are quite a few:
7.3L (1999-03): Legendary reliability. The transmission is a little weak but you can extend its life quite a bit with a larger cooler and a filter. Plenty of people run theirs to 300k and past on the original transmission so YMMV.
6.0L (2003-2009): These engines got a bad rap thanks to a bunch of problems at launch. Most of these issues have been resolved through updated tuning, and a few others have good aftermarket solutions. If you a selective, do your research, and spend the money for a process known as "bullet-proofing", you can end up with an engine that's very nearly as reliable as the 7.3L. As a bonus, the 6.0L comes with a much better and stronger transmission.
The 6.4L and 6.7L are engines I would avoid altogether unless you have very deep pockets. The 6.4L just wasn't a very good engine, and the 6.7L (2011-present) doesn't have the durability of previous engines and five-figure repair bills are common. If you plan on keeping the truck for a very long time, then I would especially avoid either of these two engines.
If I was going to buy a tow rig and pull 11,000# all over the country, I would find a nice '05 or newer truck with a 6.0 and have it bulletproofed.
Currently I have a 2000 Excursion with the 7.3L and I pull an 8,500# RV all over the US. I've been to both coasts and back and while I don't regret my decision, I would probably go with a 6.0 if I had to do it again.
BTW my truck has performed MOST impressively as a tow rig for almost a year and half now. It does everything I ask it to without complaint. Mechanical problems have been non-existent.
Best if you add in a post like yours that you need diesel and 4x4 to get you down the road.
#21
07-24-2016, 01:51 PM
Thanks Guys,
I tend to lean towards a diesel but am open to a gasser, just trying to sort out the Pros and Cons. I don't know why but I'm getting the impression diesels are more reliable but have more problems... odd I know.
Anyone with 1st hand experience, comments appreciated, especially anyone who has owned both diesel and gasser
I tend to lean towards a diesel but am open to a gasser, just trying to sort out the Pros and Cons. I don't know why but I'm getting the impression diesels are more reliable but have more problems... odd I know.
Anyone with 1st hand experience, comments appreciated, especially anyone who has owned both diesel and gasser
#22
07-24-2016, 02:39 PM
Lead Driver
There are plenty of guys who have crossed over in both direction meaning they had diesel maybe didn't really need it for a trailer that wasn't that heavy or just had excessive problem with the engine got fed up and switch to a good gas engine. Put 4.30 gears behind the 6.2 or a V10 and you have a excellent towing machine.
Guys like myself that had gas trucks had no problem whats so ever then decided maybe Ford has finally have a diesel engine (6.7) that just might have the bugs worked out of it. I've towed near 5K miles pulling 15K over a couple 10 & 11K elevation mountains with long grades and this diesel will keep gaining speed if you not paying attention.
Overall both are good towing platforms.
Guys like myself that had gas trucks had no problem whats so ever then decided maybe Ford has finally have a diesel engine (6.7) that just might have the bugs worked out of it. I've towed near 5K miles pulling 15K over a couple 10 & 11K elevation mountains with long grades and this diesel will keep gaining speed if you not paying attention.
Overall both are good towing platforms.
#23
07-24-2016, 03:47 PM
Tuned
I can tell you my experience. I have a bone stock 06 XLT FX4, 6.8L V10 3 valve gas motor, 4:10 gears and I tow a 28' Travel Trailer that weighs 8,600 LBS loaded for travel. On flat ground I don't hardly notice the trailer is back there BUT I live here in the valley of Communist California and to get anywhere out of here you have to go over some kind of grade. Pulling the trailer over the Cuesta Grade to get to the coast I'll get down to 50 MPH at times. I don't use the cruise control in the mountains so I can pick up some extra speed when approaching a good climb. I average 6 MPG when towing my TT. I dread the thought of pulling the TT over the Grapevine, the Tehachapi Pass or Donner Pass. To put things into perspective though when sniveling to my brother about this he told me back in the day when he drove a gas 1 ton service truck over the pass he would be down to 35 MPH and that was back in the days of the 454's with the turbo 400 and the 460's with the C6. I was actually expecting to sail over the Cuesta Grade at 70 MPH. I need to learn to not be in a hurry but that just doesn't happen with me.
#24
07-24-2016, 04:58 PM
Continuing research and narrowing down 5th wheels its looking like the GVWR of the RV's I'm considering are going to be in the 14K (min) to 16.6K (max) range. I'd like to stay away from a dully if I could but that might not be possible. So to narrow this down. What sized engines am looking for if I want to be sure I'm never under powered, even at elevation and climbing hills. Have heard that the diesels that FORD is building now are a lot more reliable than they used to be. Any truth to that you think? Reliability is the #1 trait I'm hoping to find
Thanks
Thanks
#25
07-24-2016, 05:28 PM
#26
07-24-2016, 05:39 PM
Laughing Gas
If you've really decided on the 14-16k range...
That, is one BIG trailer. Assuming you're going to be loading it to max gross, you are firmly, smack dab into F350 DUALLY range. Certainly for the trailer weight, but more importantly, it's the pin weight of a 5er that big, that you have to account for. That's going to be one hell of a lot of pin weight.
You're looking for a dually. Period.
And I don't know what kind of "elevation" or "hill climbing" you're looking at (Florida?), but assuming you're talking northern rocky mountains, you're going to at least want 4.30 gears and a 6.2 gas. If you're going to pull 16k with any kind of regularity, I think you've bridged the gap into 6.7 diesel range.
This is a big jump from your original "10-12K" trailer range. Now you're very far into diesel dually range.
That, is one BIG trailer. Assuming you're going to be loading it to max gross, you are firmly, smack dab into F350 DUALLY range. Certainly for the trailer weight, but more importantly, it's the pin weight of a 5er that big, that you have to account for. That's going to be one hell of a lot of pin weight.
You're looking for a dually. Period.
And I don't know what kind of "elevation" or "hill climbing" you're looking at (Florida?), but assuming you're talking northern rocky mountains, you're going to at least want 4.30 gears and a 6.2 gas. If you're going to pull 16k with any kind of regularity, I think you've bridged the gap into 6.7 diesel range.
This is a big jump from your original "10-12K" trailer range. Now you're very far into diesel dually range.
#27
07-25-2016, 05:48 AM
Hi, yeah it was a big jump. The original 10-12 range was what I was hoping for but he more research I did regarding what experienced Full Time RV's were recommending that ended up being too small. Most folks full time RV'in, like my wife and I plan recommended 30-35ft minimum and a full 4-season RV. Once I researched RV's with outstanding reliability and quality we were talking in the 14k-16.5K range.
This whole project is going to end up in the $80K range before were through. But the little woman has always dreamed of this and I think it will be fun so thats what were going to do. A dually it is. even though I wanted to avoid that looks like its not possible. We will be traveling Out west and probably Canada so some mountains and elevation will be encountered.
So I guess the question is: Is it true of Gassers struggling at elevation or is that mostly older Gassers? also... some diesels are out for sure due to poor reliability and high maintenance costs. looking at Diesels in the 2013 - 2016 year range what appears to be a reliable engine that would handle my load?
Thanks everyone
This whole project is going to end up in the $80K range before were through. But the little woman has always dreamed of this and I think it will be fun so thats what were going to do. A dually it is. even though I wanted to avoid that looks like its not possible. We will be traveling Out west and probably Canada so some mountains and elevation will be encountered.
So I guess the question is: Is it true of Gassers struggling at elevation or is that mostly older Gassers? also... some diesels are out for sure due to poor reliability and high maintenance costs. looking at Diesels in the 2013 - 2016 year range what appears to be a reliable engine that would handle my load?
Thanks everyone
#28
07-25-2016, 06:31 AM
There is a member by the name of rvpuller that is towing a 16k fifth wheel with his 6.2 dually. I believe in Colorado. I wish he would chime in and give you some insight on his experience. He doesn't seem to mind it one bit. But what one person thinks is acceptable, another person may think is horrible. Most of your mountain passes aren't 70mph speed limits, in fact, most are 45/50/55. There is no doubt the gas engine is going to Rev hard and shift a lot with that kind of weight. You can't be scared to turn it 4-5k rpm and sometimes at redline. The motor is designed to work hard up there. The diesel will be a much more enjoyable towing experience with that kind of weight, but again, you have to compare cost and reliability.
#29
07-25-2016, 08:19 AM
Lead Driver
Hi, yeah it was a big jump. The original 10-12 range was what I was hoping for but he more research I did regarding what experienced Full Time RV's were recommending that ended up being too small. Most folks full time RV'in, like my wife and I plan recommended 30-35ft minimum and a full 4-season RV. Once I researched RV's with outstanding reliability and quality we were talking in the 14k-16.5K range.
This whole project is going to end up in the $80K range before were through. But the little woman has always dreamed of this and I think it will be fun so thats what were going to do. A dually it is. even though I wanted to avoid that looks like its not possible. We will be traveling Out west and probably Canada so some mountains and elevation will be encountered.
So I guess the question is: Is it true of Gassers struggling at elevation or is that mostly older Gassers? also... some diesels are out for sure due to poor reliability and high maintenance costs. looking at Diesels in the 2013 - 2016 year range what appears to be a reliable engine that would handle my load?
Thanks everyone
This whole project is going to end up in the $80K range before were through. But the little woman has always dreamed of this and I think it will be fun so thats what were going to do. A dually it is. even though I wanted to avoid that looks like its not possible. We will be traveling Out west and probably Canada so some mountains and elevation will be encountered.
So I guess the question is: Is it true of Gassers struggling at elevation or is that mostly older Gassers? also... some diesels are out for sure due to poor reliability and high maintenance costs. looking at Diesels in the 2013 - 2016 year range what appears to be a reliable engine that would handle my load?
Thanks everyone
Now if your more of an impatient person and can't enjoy the drive and have to be first up the mountain than diesel will be your truck. Just remember it cost more to maintain.
As the other poster said rvpuller tows his 5th wheel around with the 6.2 4.30 gears and it's a heavy trailer and did it with a V10 prior to this truck.
#30
07-25-2016, 08:23 AM
Since you haven't pulled the proverbial trigger yet on buying, have you thought about a Class C or A? Sounds like you'll be spending a lot of time in your rv. We like our 5th wheel but I often think we'd switch to a class C if we didn't already have other uses for our pickup. The main reason is that it can be a pain to site see with a beast of a pickup. Plus, if we ever broke down on a long lonely interstate we could just hop into the little car we have hitched to the back of a class c.
Cost of a diesel dually and a 5th wheel would likely have you in vicinity of a nice, large class C price wise.
Cost of a diesel dually and a 5th wheel would likely have you in vicinity of a nice, large class C price wise.