Rim and hubcap question on a '63 P350
#16
07-03-2016, 09:33 PM
A tube type tire won't fit the rim. People have no doubt died trying. The 15° rim is a true drop center truck rim, never fitted to a car. The rim profile matches the 15° angle of the tire bead. The 15° rims are sized in 1/2" increments to make it obvious which tires fit. The below chart shows in red the 15° bead seat vs the 5° bead seat. The 5° design has been used for decades on big truck multi-part wheels as well as on light truck and car wheels. Stu
#17
07-03-2016, 11:35 PM
A tube type tire won't fit the rim. People have no doubt died trying. The 15° rim is a true drop center truck rim, never fitted to a car. The rim profile matches the 15° angle of the tire bead. The 15° rims are sized in 1/2" increments to make it obvious which tires fit. The below chart shows in red the 15° bead seat vs the 5° bead seat. The 5° design has been used for decades on big truck multi-part wheels as well as on light truck and car wheels. Stu
The fellow at Les Schwab made it seem as though I could use the tube type tires if I had the stem hole drilled in the right place.
Thanks again.
#18
07-03-2016, 11:36 PM
Fleet Mechanic
P 350's came standard with the Spicer 60 8 lug axle. Optional heavy duty axle in the P 350 was the Spicer 70 6 lug. P 400's came standard with the Spicer 70 6 lug. The 16.5" wheels shown are found on some , but not all, mid 70's Dodge D 200 D 300 pickups or B 300 vans. Original period 8 lug wheels will have inner tabs for hubcap retention, most common one piece size would be 17.5" and 19.5". There were aftermarket period one piece 8 lug 16.5" wheels with inner tabs, most commonily seen on mid 60's camper hauling pickups.
#19
07-03-2016, 11:58 PM
P 350's came standard with the Spicer 60 8 lug axle. Optional heavy duty axle in the P 350 was the Spicer 70 6 lug. P 400's came standard with the Spicer 70 6 lug. The 16.5" wheels shown are found on some , but not all, mid 70's Dodge D 200 D 300 pickups or B 300 vans. Original period 8 lug wheels will have inner tabs for hubcap retention, most common one piece size would be 17.5" and 19.5". There were aftermarket period one piece 8 lug 16.5" wheels with inner tabs, most commonily seen on mid 60's camper hauling pickups.
Now that you point out the Dodge connnection, it makes sense as they look sort of Dodge-like...
I hope to get it on taller wheels as the 9.50 -16.5 look pretty small in diameter.
Would the hubcaps be what Bill showed do you think?
Thanks
#20
07-04-2016, 10:38 AM
Fleet Mechanic
Interesting, so maybe it won't be tough to find brake parts and the like.
Now that you point out the Dodge connnection, it makes sense as they look sort of Dodge-like...
I hope to get it on taller wheels as the 9.50 -16.5 look pretty small in diameter.
Would the hubcaps be what Bill showed do you think?
Thanks
Now that you point out the Dodge connnection, it makes sense as they look sort of Dodge-like...
I hope to get it on taller wheels as the 9.50 -16.5 look pretty small in diameter.
Would the hubcaps be what Bill showed do you think?
Thanks
#21
07-04-2016, 03:02 PM
Yes, some, but not all, Dodge pickups and vans experimented with this style 16.5" wheels frome mid 70s' till the early 80's before they transitioned to 16" wheels.
Because parcel vans were intended to be used exclusively for city delivery work, they were always geared low. 4.88 is the standard P 350 Spicer 60 ratio with 12 1/8 x 2 brakes all around. If it had the heavy duty Spicer 70 axle, it would have been geared even lower, a 5.13 or 5.87 ratio with 13 x 2 1/2 brakes on rear.
--- the blue van has the timken rockwell axle with 5.13 and big brakes
I would always recommend the tallest narrowest tire available in that era, the 8-19.5, so if you collecting these type of vans, always be on the make for 19.5" rims.
---I had the widowmaker 6lug wheels on the blue van and the Boyertown cut and welded with 17" drop centers as that seemed the largest rim size to work on those centers. Still, the 7.50-17 tube type is at least 2" larger in diameter than the 235 80r17 that is the tallest tire I can find. That's why I was considering mounting the tube type on the tubless rims but Stu advises against it. I saw that the used wheel folks in Oregon have some tubless 19.5 6 holes at $340 a pop with shipping... We won't be doing much freeway driving unless they are on a trailer.
About the UPS connection, if it was, there will be evidence of brown paint somewhere, but, all the UPS trucks that I'm aware of with that styling, were P 500's with dual wheels.
---I hope to getting that plaque the fellow I bought this one from that says something about being accident free UPS truck. I am doubtful though. I will be getting plenty of opportunity to see the layers of paint as there is severe rust out around the windshield(nothing like a bit of a challenge).
The type 1 hubcap is correct for '61 to '66, but it must have the 8 3/4" diameter inner lip to mount to the period 17.5" or 19.5" 8 lug wheels. You have the 12" type 4( used '67 thru '77).
---it may be too pricey for my tastes but 8 hole could be easier to find.
There was never a hubcap manufactured by Ford for the 6 lug wheel
---Yeah, I like the open wheel look anyhow, and no nubs to mount a cap.
.
Because parcel vans were intended to be used exclusively for city delivery work, they were always geared low. 4.88 is the standard P 350 Spicer 60 ratio with 12 1/8 x 2 brakes all around. If it had the heavy duty Spicer 70 axle, it would have been geared even lower, a 5.13 or 5.87 ratio with 13 x 2 1/2 brakes on rear.
--- the blue van has the timken rockwell axle with 5.13 and big brakes
I would always recommend the tallest narrowest tire available in that era, the 8-19.5, so if you collecting these type of vans, always be on the make for 19.5" rims.
---I had the widowmaker 6lug wheels on the blue van and the Boyertown cut and welded with 17" drop centers as that seemed the largest rim size to work on those centers. Still, the 7.50-17 tube type is at least 2" larger in diameter than the 235 80r17 that is the tallest tire I can find. That's why I was considering mounting the tube type on the tubless rims but Stu advises against it. I saw that the used wheel folks in Oregon have some tubless 19.5 6 holes at $340 a pop with shipping... We won't be doing much freeway driving unless they are on a trailer.
About the UPS connection, if it was, there will be evidence of brown paint somewhere, but, all the UPS trucks that I'm aware of with that styling, were P 500's with dual wheels.
---I hope to getting that plaque the fellow I bought this one from that says something about being accident free UPS truck. I am doubtful though. I will be getting plenty of opportunity to see the layers of paint as there is severe rust out around the windshield(nothing like a bit of a challenge).
The type 1 hubcap is correct for '61 to '66, but it must have the 8 3/4" diameter inner lip to mount to the period 17.5" or 19.5" 8 lug wheels. You have the 12" type 4( used '67 thru '77).
---it may be too pricey for my tastes but 8 hole could be easier to find.
There was never a hubcap manufactured by Ford for the 6 lug wheel
---Yeah, I like the open wheel look anyhow, and no nubs to mount a cap.
.
#22
07-04-2016, 10:31 PM
Would this rim work with the Type 1 hubcap?
A tube type tire won't fit the rim. People have no doubt died trying. The 15° rim is a true drop center truck rim, never fitted to a car. The rim profile matches the 15° angle of the tire bead. The 15° rims are sized in 1/2" increments to make it obvious which tires fit. The below chart shows in red the 15° bead seat vs the 5° bead seat. The 5° design has been used for decades on big truck multi-part wheels as well as on light truck and car wheels. Stu
#23
07-05-2016, 01:44 AM
It is a K-H 40261, 19.5" x 5.25", used on Chevy and GMC trucks. It won't fit a rear axle because it has a smaller center hole than a Ford wheel. This has a 4.62" hole where Ford, Dodge, and IHC have a 4.78" hole. This wheel could be used on a front axle, but the Ford hub cap won't fit cleanly. This takes a 9.15" diameter cap where the Ford wheel takes an 8.844" diameter cap. Stu
#24
07-05-2016, 08:53 AM
It is a K-H 40261, 19.5" x 5.25", used on Chevy and GMC trucks. It won't fit a rear axle because it has a smaller center hole than a Ford wheel. This has a 4.62" hole where Ford, Dodge, and IHC have a 4.78" hole. This wheel could be used on a front axle, but the Ford hub cap won't fit cleanly. This takes a 9.15" diameter cap where the Ford wheel takes an 8.844" diameter cap. Stu
Thank you again for your help.
Michael
#25
07-05-2016, 09:37 AM
I'm not aware of anybody repop'ing these SRW 19.5s.
There is another I'll mention, if you come across it someday. There is a guy who sets up at Iola every year who seeks out SRW 19.5s. But doesn't sell them interestingly. He swears that UPS had a wheel company produce a proprietary run for them years ago. They have no stamped in metal part numbers, in the same way K-H's don't have numbers. But no hub cap clips. I used to have one with the 6 x 7.25" pattern.
From my references I know that Ford last used the 19.5" size in 1966, and Dodge and IHC in 1968. Yet, K-H having been silent to the size for the years after 1968, again catalogued them beginning in 1984 on GM trucks. Might those be the UPS wheels? Plus these were wider at 19.5 x 6". Stu
There is another I'll mention, if you come across it someday. There is a guy who sets up at Iola every year who seeks out SRW 19.5s. But doesn't sell them interestingly. He swears that UPS had a wheel company produce a proprietary run for them years ago. They have no stamped in metal part numbers, in the same way K-H's don't have numbers. But no hub cap clips. I used to have one with the 6 x 7.25" pattern.
From my references I know that Ford last used the 19.5" size in 1966, and Dodge and IHC in 1968. Yet, K-H having been silent to the size for the years after 1968, again catalogued them beginning in 1984 on GM trucks. Might those be the UPS wheels? Plus these were wider at 19.5 x 6". Stu
#26
07-05-2016, 03:17 PM
A couple of others from AKH.
I'm not aware of anybody repop'ing these SRW 19.5s.
There is another I'll mention, if you come across it someday. There is a guy who sets up at Iola every year who seeks out SRW 19.5s. But doesn't sell them interestingly. He swears that UPS had a wheel company produce a proprietary run for them years ago. They have no stamped in metal part numbers, in the same way K-H's don't have numbers. But no hub cap clips. I used to have one with the 6 x 7.25" pattern.
From my references I know that Ford last used the 19.5" size in 1966, and Dodge and IHC in 1968. Yet, K-H having been silent to the size for the years after 1968, again catalogued them beginning in 1984 on GM trucks. Might those be the UPS wheels? Plus these were wider at 19.5 x 6". Stu
There is another I'll mention, if you come across it someday. There is a guy who sets up at Iola every year who seeks out SRW 19.5s. But doesn't sell them interestingly. He swears that UPS had a wheel company produce a proprietary run for them years ago. They have no stamped in metal part numbers, in the same way K-H's don't have numbers. But no hub cap clips. I used to have one with the 6 x 7.25" pattern.
From my references I know that Ford last used the 19.5" size in 1966, and Dodge and IHC in 1968. Yet, K-H having been silent to the size for the years after 1968, again catalogued them beginning in 1984 on GM trucks. Might those be the UPS wheels? Plus these were wider at 19.5 x 6". Stu
#28
07-05-2016, 11:02 PM
#29
07-06-2016, 03:37 AM
Are these wheels listed for sale somewhere, some you own, or just file pictures you've saved? Being 5.25" wide the 6 x 7.25" is the standard Budd 70740. The 8 x 6.5" is a puzzle having no hub cap innie nubs, no clips, and no mounting holes for clips. Interesting wheel that I'd like to know more about.
Edit - oh wait. Do I see the faint outline of a filled clip hole at about the 11:30 area of the center disc? Just below and left of the valve stem hole. If so it's the K-H Chevy/GMC wheel. Stu
Edit - oh wait. Do I see the faint outline of a filled clip hole at about the 11:30 area of the center disc? Just below and left of the valve stem hole. If so it's the K-H Chevy/GMC wheel. Stu
#30
07-06-2016, 10:30 AM
All of the images are from AKH Vintage Wheels
Are these wheels listed for sale somewhere, some you own, or just file pictures you've saved? Being 5.25" wide the 6 x 7.25" is the standard Budd 70740. The 8 x 6.5" is a puzzle having no hub cap innie nubs, no clips, and no mounting holes for clips. Interesting wheel that I'd like to know more about.
Edit - oh wait. Do I see the faint outline of a filled clip hole at about the 11:30 area of the center disc? Just below and left of the valve stem hole. If so it's the K-H Chevy/GMC wheel. Stu
Edit - oh wait. Do I see the faint outline of a filled clip hole at about the 11:30 area of the center disc? Just below and left of the valve stem hole. If so it's the K-H Chevy/GMC wheel. Stu
I haven't had the stomach to pay what he is asking yet. He is quite responsive to email inquiries.
