ElmerFudd51,

Great points. I agree, would make sense in towing, but wanted to limit it to just the aluminum body F150s. Never had an issue towing with all the same variables and my 04 or 13 F150's.

As much as I resisted the idea of weight distribution, it appears to be correct. I have not been able to run the full scale test, as the scales I have easiest access to do not way individual axle weights. I plan to do this in near future.

The three shops I spoke with all install hitches, but none have identified the problem.

So, as I worked through the math on this, I had a eureka moment. I fully apologize to the poster that insisted it was weight distribution. I did not believe you, but I think you nailed it.

Below is chart of curb weights for front and rear axles on 13 and 15 crew cab 4X4 models: (sorry, excel does not paste well here)

year front rear total front % rear %
2013 3214 2372 5586 57.54% 42.46%
2015 2846 1880 4726 60.22% 39.78%

With aluminum body comes different weight distribution. Trailer and truck combined had a weight of 12,000, and truck alone on scale was 5880 (with trailer attached) and the front axle was holding 2980, or about 50%. To be properly distributed, 60% should be on the front axle and 40% on rear, or 3540# on and 2340# on rear. Almost 2.5% different than on past model years.

However, when following the setup instructions from Reese and the way a camping store would normally setup hitch, in order to get that type of weight distribution you would end up with truck sitting high in rear. By lowering the ball, you can achieve the proper weight distribution and keep the truck and camper sitting level.

The difficulty was the change in weight distribution on the new trucks, loaded or unloaded. The Reese instructions look at squat only, not weights. Therefore, I was not using enough spring on weight distribution bars to properly distribute mode.

Sound feasible?

 

It's almost like we're trying to tow with a "long wheelbase Ranger",. The weight savings has had an adverse effect in handling with trailers. I'll be putting 1,600 towing miles with a round trip to Louisville and then close to 3,000 towing miles on a trip to Michigan. If it doesn't perform to my expectations, I'll broom the F150 for a GMC Sierra Denali 4X4 6.2l.

I'll be towing a 24' enclosed trailer with no WDH (no space for it with the V-nose). I've never used a WDH with any previous trucks with boat or car trailers. I'm not going to buy a different trailer....

 

I'm curious to know what your experience is after you've tested the new configuration.

For what it's worth, I believe that the new 3.5 ecoboost in the 2017's is supposed to have been set back a bit further and shifts at least a little bit of that weight back to the rear. Engine is a bit lighter too.

 

Yup, I think you nailed it. Shame it cost you a set of tires to figure this out. Some folks on here continually advocate LT tires as a necessity, and I think that's misguided most of the time unless you need the load capacity.

 

I put LT tires on my 2008 F150. The biggest difference it make was the truck rode worse.

 

I still stand by my assessment of the Fortitude HT as a terrible tire. You're better off without them.

 

OP I'm very interested if you measured the distances from the wheel well to ground distances front and rear with the distribution bars unattached and then attached? If you did what were the measurements? I have a new 2016 F150 and have setup my Reese SC hitch My trucks wheel well measurements are the front lowered 1/4" and the rear lowered 1". I have not towed with it yet. The ideal setup is equal sag front and rear.

 

Mr Freedom, I highly recommend you take your rig to a CAT scale to get axle weights. At the very least, it'll help get guys like me off your back when you need to start a thread like this one . . .

You may also learn something that helps you set up the WD hitch better.

 

I didn't start this thread. My question stands.

 

seems to be a lot of resistance from the op to just verifying his loaded steer and drive axle weights and then that of the trailer.

 

Yes, before everything else, I did measure the height to the wheel well both loaded and unloaded, just as instructed by Reese in instructions for round bar WD. I then took it to camping store that installs hitches, they made the same measurements and told me it looked good. They then added the dual cam sway control to my Reese round bar WD setup. No significant change.

Just to be clear, I am not resistant to checking weights. I started this thread about 4 weeks ago. I did make it to the scale at my workplace, but it is a normal truck scale and does not have the functionality to weigh individual axles. I plan to make it to a CAT scale, but we were on vacation for the last three weeks traveling the east coast. I was hoping to have this problem diagnosed before we left. Had I listened and went to a scale earlier, probably would have been able to drive over 62 while going from Buffalo to Orlando and back. I just struggled to believe that there was a weight issue considering nothing had changed from towing with my 13, but I am fully willing to admit I was wrong if it turns out to be the case.

 

I don't know if the weights will tell you anything, or solve your problem, but they will at least help you rule something out, which is a good start.

Best of luck.

 

Looking back over what you've posted, I think the immediate problem is pretty simple - too much tongue weight. Doing the math from the scale, your trailer is 7,254 lbs and the tongue weight is (at least) 1,154 lbs. Ford says 15% maximum tongue weight, SAE tests are done at 10%, and you're at 16% and actually more, since the weights you've measured are with the WD hitch installed and that's transferring some of the tongue weight back to the trailer wheels. I'm going to guess the actual tongue weight is 18%+ and that's really high, and it's why you're having to crank your WD hitch like crazy.

So, everyone hold your horses - yes I know that the solution to all the world's problems is more tongue weight, but please read on...

The real problem is going to be deeper; i.e., the reason why your tongue weight is so high is going to be poor weight distribution of the trailer itself. My guess is that with a 30' trailer and a super heavy tongue, the trailer has a really high yaw inertia - meaning, I suspect, that it was never the most stable trailer to begin with. Your old truck was heavy enough to handle it, but your new one isn't. It's being overwhelmed, despite the trailer being well within the advertised towing limits. So why is that?

People talk about tongue weights and overall weights, but the yaw inertia trumps all of that in spades. A 30lb spare tire located 10' off the axle centerline is exerting a 300ft-lb force back on the vehicle. That's not insignificant in itself, and that's but a tiny portion of the total interia of the trailer. Every bump you hit and every gust of wind is being multiplied by the moment of inertia and being transferred back to your truck. The truck has an inertia of its own, of course, depending on it's weight. The higher the truck's inertia, the less it will be affected by the forces from the trailer. So in your case, all that inertia from the trailer is now acting on a much lighter truck than what you had before and simply put, I think the truck just can't handle it. This is why two people with similar trucks and similar weight trailers can have such divergent experiences with how their trailers tow. It has less to do with the overall weight of the trailer than it does the length of the trailer, how that weight is distributed along that length, and how much energy you're giving that weight through speed.

I'd say that your first step should be to look at how you've loaded the trailer and see if there aren't things that you can reposition closer to the axles. Secondly, you can try to mitigate the problem with anti-sway whatevers but keep in mind that while those things do improve the problem, they also mask it to a certain degree. That is, the delta between the trailer feeling a bit wobbly and being on its roof is going to be narrowed. Honestly, if the trailer doesn't feel stable at 65 now, I doubt I'd want to drive it at 65 even if you can get it feeling good. Speed = energy in the trailer, and that's what you want to avoid if it's not stable. Keep in mind what everyone in a trailer accident says: "It felt really stable up to the point we crashed."

The real solution, in my mind, though, is a heavier truck or a lighter trailer. I know Ford says you can tow a small planet with an F150 but that's largely the product of one upping the other manufacturers. Yes, you can do it, but under what circumstances is the question. Ford and everyone else base their max tow weights on assumptions about your trailer. Specifically, they test using cargo trailers with optimistically placed ballast to provide the weight, which is what the SAE J-whatever standard says to use. The yaw ratios of the trailers they test are really low, and when it comes to stability, yaw ratio is everything.

That's a long way of saying that just because Ford says the maximum tow rating is 10,700 lbs, that doesn't mean that you can hook up a 10,000lb travel trailer with its awful inherent weight distribution and head out on the highway at 80mph. What it means is that you can probably haul that much around town at 40mph with a fairly low chance of killing anyone or your truck. The engine won't overheat, the brakes won't fail, and the trailer won't push you around, at least not at that speed. Some people will do better with heavier trailers than others, based on the weight distribution of their trailers. But in general, you should steer clear of the advertised limits.

My general rule is that if you're headed out on the highway, you don't want to tow anything heavier than the truck itself. And that's obviously significantly less than what they're rated for. And of course, it's getting less because trucks are getting lighter. They all will, Ford is just the first.

But again, the real solution to your problem is a more compact trailer or a super duty. So ends my trailer towing manifesto.

 

I agree with the majority of your post, but not your conclusion. As a former professional driver I've logged hundreds of thousands of miles pulling trailers between 10,000-62,000 lbs with an 18,000 lb road tractor. Nearly a million of these vehicles are on the road today, and they do just fine. Professional drivers understand how their vehicles handle, and the good ones drive accordingly.

It can be done, but conventional trailers are much more finnicky about the setup than fifth wheels because of how the pivot point is behind the rear axle. You can adjust tongue weight as needed by changing the load of the trailer, and yaw inertia would be adjusted accordingly assuming the trailer frame remains intact.

 

Well put, and makes sense for everything I have stated. I am not loading the trailer any different than I ever have, but having new issues. The only thing that changed is the truck. Your points about inertia and load distribution are well taken.