1988 e150 with single 22 gallon tank, 2 fuel pumps, one filter, and one reservoir.
Last week I forgot what I was doing,, either parking or starting the engine but i heard a growling/wining sound which i thought was under the drivers area. That is where the second fuel pump is... I thought, ok, the PO had replaced the fuel tank, pump, and gauge sender unit and not the front pump... It's probably the front pump.. I hadn't thought much more about it as i have been doing other work on the van instead of driving it..
Today while charging the AC system, after about 1hr of the van running i began hearing a low high pitched winning sound and found it to be the pump in the tank.

I am sure as the PO replaced it only to sell the van, that he probably used the cheapest pump he could find..

I banged on the gas tank and it sounded empty but the gauge was showing over 1/4 tank. Last fill up the gauge was touching the empty line and i put 20 gallons in the tank, so unless the sender has quit working right, it should have 5 or 6 gallons of fuel in it..

i also have no idea the quality of the PO's work. I know he changed only 1 valve cover and changed the plugs, not the wires or cap and rotor..

He did put a new fuel filter on. he changed the tank because it was full of rust and the sending unit was laying down in the bottom of the tank. He didn't change the fuel lines and the van had sat for years. ..

suggestions?

I never worked on a system with two pumps... As i want it to be dependable should just go ahead and replace both pumps, filter, and perhaps the pressure regulator?

Last time I drove it I went on the freeway around 75mph and it had no problems..

The pump noise started after the van had been running for some time. I cut the engine off and restarted it. the second time the wine went away..

 

My '90 has 2 tanks and 3 pumps.

The combination pump/sender in the tank has been a pain. Especially the mid-ship tank. That one has been replaced 3 times.

I have never replaced the pump on the frame rail.

The system is designed to pump fuel out of the tank to the pump on the frame rail. The tank pump is lower pressure higher volume pump. The one on the frame rail is high pressure for the fuel injection system. However I believe you have a carb as injection came to pass in 1989 so the frame rail pump may not be as high a pressure as an injected system.


Anyway the tank pump is very sensitive to running dry. (At least mine are) I believe that is why my pumps have died. Getting rust and debris out of the system will save your pump. However the filter is after the tank pump so it doesn't help that pump.


If the tank pump is bad it does not mean the rail pump is bad. And I believe the fuel filter is before the rail pump. I would not replace the rail pump unless there is an issue. However you might invest in another fuel filter knowing that there was rust in the system at one time.

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Thanks for the information on the purl pumps.. I am just starting to learn about the fuel system.. This 88 van is EFI.. the 302's had EFI I think starting in 85 but the 5.8 didn't until like you said, 89.. My 85 has a carb and the fuel system is so much simpler..

BUT I solved the wining problem! I started it today and it quit running in a minute or so.. It was out of gas even though the gauge registered almost 1/2 tank. The wining must have been because it was dry.. Hopefully it didn't damage it.

Last week I ran it till the needle was touching the empty line and then filled it up. it took 19.5 gallons and the gauge said full.. So I know the gauge was working last week. Now I am wondering if while working on the AC, that I might have shorted a wire or something. When removing the evaporator housing, I had to move all the main wiring harnesses on that side.
The only thing I did to the wiring besides moving the harnesses and disconnecting the blower and blower resistor connector, cleaned the grounds on that side, and connected the new compressor and pressure switch. The pressure switch and compressor had been disconnected for sometime.
i guess i will start by disconnecting the sending unit plug and see what the gauge reads. I have a EVTM for the van so that should help..

BTW RA has 2 motorcraft high pressure pumps left at $336.00 i think it was And a sending unit with pump for the midship tank for 300 something!

I think I will do some research on the best pumps to buy and order a tank pump to have on hand as a spare... Airtex, Carquest, Delphi, and Precision is all that is available here local.. i read about people having to replace all of those along with Carter.. I read that Walbro might be a long lasting pump, I dont know...

 

The last time I bought a tank pump it was most of a hundred dollars. (Ebay I believe) Seller claims this works Electric Fuel Pump in Tank Electric Fuel Pumps BWD P9 | eBay
It looks correct. This type you need to take the pump/sender apart and install new pump. I have never replaced a frame rail high pressure pump.

This was more like the kit I bought. Electric Fuel Pump in Tank Autobest F1498 | eBay

My E 150 is a 5.8l with E4OD on a 138" wb fairly well loaded.

The things you have done to the AC would have NO impact on the fuel gauge or system. A good ground is important for the fuel gauge to work. One of the wires coming out of the pump/sender is a ground.

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Oh BTW get the corrrect pump. I don't think it matters if replacing the pump only. For the pump/sender combo there are a half a dozen set ups because of tank configuration.

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Replaced both intank pumps 2 years ago with these:

https://www.amazon.com/Carter-P74067...ine+club+wagon

Still running. jim



Front intank pump 88 E150, 302 clubwagon XLT

 

^^^^^ That is the full monte! For the big $ tha6t you have posted.

I did that once and then did pump only.

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well now I am confused, again!

It appeared to be out of gas yesterday when I first started the engine. It ran a minute or so and died and would not start. I added gs from a 3 gallon can that was almost full.. So lets say 2,5 gallons.. i primed the lines a few times by just turning the key on and off before I tried starting the engine.. It started up fairly well.. I ran the engine for 10 or 15 minutes checking out the AC and listening to the fuel pumps...

Today i drove the van 1 mile to the gas station and filled the tank but it only held 14 gallons.... That would indicate that there was still 8 gallons in the tank. The gauge was reading just under 1/2 a tank of gas...

Right now the gauge is pegged way past full...
Last week the gauge was just starting to touch the empty mark and it took 19 gallons to fill it up. The gauge always pegs past full when the van is full..
(Jim had mentioned the IVR could be back some time back and I tend to agree. has nothing to do with this problem right now.)

Again it is a new tank, sending unit, and pump, but I have no idea about the instillation as the Po did the work..

I am going to assume that the gauge reading just under 1/2 tank was fairly correct and that for some reason the engine was not receiving fuel from the tank once it was down to 6 gallons..

When it quit running like it was out of gas, I heard a loud high pitched wine from the pump and knocking on the bottom of the tank, it sounded empty to me... Adding 2.5 gallons it started right up.
I do know it held 19 gallons last week with no problems filling the tank and I have done nothing to the tank or lines.

the engine seems to run fine even when pressing the gas peddle all the way down taking off, so it is getting fuel...

Thinking, the pump sits down almost on the bottom of the tank... When the fuel level is at the top of the pump,, that might be around 6 gallons left in the tank... If something was cracked, broken, or loose, at the top of the low pressure in tank pump, would the high pressure rail pump suck air?
But then, why did I hear the high pitch whine from the rear pump..

After hearing the Whining pump, I cut the engine off and restarted it a couple of times. the 3rd of 4th time there was no more whining. I did not leave the engine running but a couple of minutes after that... i did not start the engine again that day.. It was the following day when i started the engine and it quickly quit like it was out of gas..

Maybe I need to carry a funnel and 5 gallons of gas with me and run the van till it quits again?

Maybe jack the van up, loosen the fuel line at the filter, add a length of fuel hose to the end of the line so it drops into a gas can, jump out the fuel pump relay, and pump the gas out of the tank and see how many gallons are pumped out?

i need to use the van Saturday to take a group of people somewhere

Just thinking what to pump the gas into... I have the new 22 gallon gas tank for my 85 e150 that I have not installed yet!

I know this is very long but let me add one more thing.. After i parked it tonight I turned the key off and on a few times. The pump sounded normal till just about the time it is supposed to stop, then it makes a lower groan sound in the last 1/2 second or so...

 

If this connection or this connection is not done correctly, fuel pumps back into the tank. The high pressure pump sucks air at about 1/2 tank depending on which hose clamp is loose.

 

The pick up and sock are about at the bottom of the tank. Within fractions of an inch.

My gauge goes past the full mark and has fuel at the E mark. Usually several gallons. I am only using the rear tank. The accuracy of the dash gauge has more to do with the integrety of the electrical system than other factors.

I would think with a full tank you could get 250 miles.

The pump noise may be a signal it isn't long to keep running My midship tank pumps did not last long if I ran that tank dry.

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i don't know the brand yet, but that pump has less then 7000 miles on it...
I guess the safest thing to do is to go ahead and drop the tank, check out things, and replace the pump. As far as i know it has never ran dry. I have only driven it a a few miles since i filled it up. I will try to fill it again and see if it holds any more. If it doesn't hold more then a couple more gallons, then i will know it had at least 6 gallons in it when it quit the other day.

 

I had a dual tank F-150 with high pressure pumps in the tanks and no pump on the frame rail. I routinely ran one tank until it coughed and nosed over then hit the switch and it picked up and kept going. 116K on one pump, 122K on the second one. And not electrical, the check valve failed.

You can not run on a dry pump so I don't see how you can hurt it. The pumps sit in a well to keep the pumps wet until the last drop of fuel. jim

 

I think either the pump is bad or there is a problem some where in the tank where the pump connects to the sending unit..
AZ has a delphi pump in stock so once I get the old/new one out I can tell more about it.
I don't know what caused the high pitched loud whine It has not done that since that day but I did run the engine about an hour or so in the yard when it started making the noise..

Could something else cause a pump to go bad? Clogged filter would cause extra pressure on the pump... Bad relay, no power or not enough voltage due to burnt contacts? So Change the tank pump, filter, relay, and clean the ground to it. The only other part left would be the pressure regulator.

Maybe you know Jim,, The relay is mounted right behind the battery in a plastic case with another relay that I don't know what it goes to.. But when removing parts out of the way to replace the evaporator I unscrewed the relay box from the fender well.
Do you remember if the relays will snap out of that box or does the box need to be replaced with both relays? The plastic box is open on the bottom and one can clearly see the bottom of the relay and the harness connectors.

Well it must come out of the box as RA says it looks like this
More Information for STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS RY111

It is just a matter of is you have to unbolt the box or not.. i have to remove the battery to do that...

 

If one can not run the pump dry how does the engine cough in the above scenario?


The bottom on my tank does not have a well. It does have ribbing and the pick up may sit in the bottom of a rib. However lets just say there is a well and the pump sit in a well. When the pump empties the tank and empties the well what is it called when the fuel pump pick up sock is no longer pumping fluid because there is no fluid left?


So my experience has been the mid-ship tank pump in my '90 E150 is good for about 3 of those events that run out of fuel such that the engine stumbles. Then the pump will no longer pressurize the fuel system out of the mid-tank fuel lines.


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Yeah, the box is just the holder although I never removed either relay. Mine hadn't moved in 27 years since it left the factory.

Neither of my pumps whined although the rear pump was starving for fuel pickup. The symptoms were that while it ran fine around town, at above 55 on the highway, it would lose power and finally die after an hour of running fine. What I discovered was my dad and little brother had poured lots of alcohol (HEAT) in the tank thinking they were preventing water buildup (the van spent its life in Southern Illinois).

The result was what looked like calcium deposits like on a coffee maker. It coated the sock filter to the point where the pump could not keep up with the fuel use above 55. After dying and sitting on the roadside for 20-30 minutes, it started right up and cycle repeated.

Drop the tank(s), it isn't that hard, and it saves a lot of guessing. jim