Read codes fixed problem NOW more codes and it runs worse
#91
Apparently a leaking intake or valve cover gasket might just do that. Seems that I will have to reseal all to find out for sure.
Truck is 100% stock so no aggressive cam. Hopefully when I treat down I won't find a valve issue. If so will be time for the heads to be redone. I really don't want to do that at this time.
This problem came on very suddenly. So it makes sense when you look at it. I'm now thinking that the intake seal has failed. Not a major fail, but enough seepage to cause a vacuum drop to the MAP.
Small enough to affect operation of the MAP. As time has gone on it has steadily gotten worse, or rather the leaking increased to the point that it can be detected. However there are no oil leaks that I have found.
It does explain the hard hot start tho.
It may be due to the cleaning I do as I take things apart. Before they go back together I clean surrounding areas when and where I can. I do this so that if a seal fails I can easily find it before it becomes a major fail and bigger problems arise. I don't use solvents or any thing harsh on seal areas just a soft bristle nylon brush and water. Then blow off dirt with air. I have always done that.
I'm trying to locate gaskets now. I'm torn between using Ford parts and Felpro. Cost difference is huge!
$ 35 compared to $ 110 from Ford. I'll probably use ford but gheesh.
Any thoughts on that?
Thanks
Charlie
Truck is 100% stock so no aggressive cam. Hopefully when I treat down I won't find a valve issue. If so will be time for the heads to be redone. I really don't want to do that at this time.
This problem came on very suddenly. So it makes sense when you look at it. I'm now thinking that the intake seal has failed. Not a major fail, but enough seepage to cause a vacuum drop to the MAP.
Small enough to affect operation of the MAP. As time has gone on it has steadily gotten worse, or rather the leaking increased to the point that it can be detected. However there are no oil leaks that I have found.
It does explain the hard hot start tho.
It may be due to the cleaning I do as I take things apart. Before they go back together I clean surrounding areas when and where I can. I do this so that if a seal fails I can easily find it before it becomes a major fail and bigger problems arise. I don't use solvents or any thing harsh on seal areas just a soft bristle nylon brush and water. Then blow off dirt with air. I have always done that.
I'm trying to locate gaskets now. I'm torn between using Ford parts and Felpro. Cost difference is huge!
$ 35 compared to $ 110 from Ford. I'll probably use ford but gheesh.
Any thoughts on that?
Thanks
Charlie
#94
I have used the Felpro many times before too but I am trying to keep her stock. So I ordered stock.
Have to wait for em.
Coo! Part is I can just text my buddy at Ford and he orders and texts me when It gets in. And get jobber rates on prices. It is more expensive but I am guaranteed to get the right part(s) every time.
I can't decide if I'm gonna replace bolts on intake or not. If they look good I'll probably just dip en and clean em real well. I should have all the taps and dyes to clean all the threads.
What type of permeatex is recommended to use for install? I can't remember.
Anyways thanks for replies!! Gonna try and soak bolts for easier removal. I don't wanna break any of em trying to get em out!! It's a real pain in the butt if they break.
Thanks
Charlie
Have to wait for em.
Coo! Part is I can just text my buddy at Ford and he orders and texts me when It gets in. And get jobber rates on prices. It is more expensive but I am guaranteed to get the right part(s) every time.
I can't decide if I'm gonna replace bolts on intake or not. If they look good I'll probably just dip en and clean em real well. I should have all the taps and dyes to clean all the threads.
What type of permeatex is recommended to use for install? I can't remember.
Anyways thanks for replies!! Gonna try and soak bolts for easier removal. I don't wanna break any of em trying to get em out!! It's a real pain in the butt if they break.
Thanks
Charlie
#96
No I'm talking about the corners you have to use a sealant between the China wall and the gasket. Plus in some cases it is recommended to seal around the coolant passages to unsure no leakage. Plus it helps hold the gasket in place with a light coating of sealant.
I was just to lazy to look it up. And my memory is full of holes anymore!!
It depends on the type of gasket you have too. Some require sealant others do not. You have to RTFI! LOL!!
Thanks
Charlie
I was just to lazy to look it up. And my memory is full of holes anymore!!
It depends on the type of gasket you have too. Some require sealant others do not. You have to RTFI! LOL!!
Thanks
Charlie
#97
To clarify to Mike1,
I know I said permatex I meant RTV sealant. I took the time to look up information on install of the lower intake. I have a bad habit of interchanging the names of those two products and I shouldn't do that. My bad on that one!!
I'm not sure what ( if anything) is used on the bolts yet. My information on procedure does not specify anything. Glad you said something so I won't forget to check on that!!
Thanks
Charlie
I know I said permatex I meant RTV sealant. I took the time to look up information on install of the lower intake. I have a bad habit of interchanging the names of those two products and I shouldn't do that. My bad on that one!!
I'm not sure what ( if anything) is used on the bolts yet. My information on procedure does not specify anything. Glad you said something so I won't forget to check on that!!
Thanks
Charlie
#98
Well gang the hits just keep on coming!!!!
Got the intake off the truck. Yes there is/was a small leak at the back of the left side of the engine over the # 8 cylinder. BUT it gets better lol
Once I removed the intake and inspected it. I found the evidence I was looking for and I went to check the gasket for confirmation. I happened to look around the valley. Guess what I found!!!
Not anything I was thinking might be wrong. I saw one bent pushrod. So I started to look more closely and low and behold I had 5 total bent pushrods two laying in the valley. Imagine my surprise at this.
The engine gave me no indication other than the smoke in the exhaust. I did not expect to see this. Signs of a head gasket starting to go bad yeah. But bent pushrods. Never entered my mind!!
Looks like it's rebuild time. I haven't pulled the valve covers yet so there may be more damage that I haven't seen yet. I said I was in it till it's right again so,....
Looking at options now. I do know that I will be grinding some on the intake. The casting slag is everywhere. I have to finish pulling the motor. I have along way to go yet. Then break it down to determine the full extent of the damage. It is amazing tho. The motor only had a slight vibration at idle and slightly down on power. The funny part is that it kept getting better and better as I worked out the problems, in all aspects that I never imagined catastrophic failure.
Many thanks to all who tried to help figure this out. Hope this helps someone else in figuring out a hesitation at idle. Ya just never know where it's gonna take you. I was so sure it was something simple. I should have run a compression check a long time ago. I just kept putting it off cause I thought it was simple. Hindsight is 20 20 tho.
Thanks
Charlie
Got the intake off the truck. Yes there is/was a small leak at the back of the left side of the engine over the # 8 cylinder. BUT it gets better lol
Once I removed the intake and inspected it. I found the evidence I was looking for and I went to check the gasket for confirmation. I happened to look around the valley. Guess what I found!!!
Not anything I was thinking might be wrong. I saw one bent pushrod. So I started to look more closely and low and behold I had 5 total bent pushrods two laying in the valley. Imagine my surprise at this.
The engine gave me no indication other than the smoke in the exhaust. I did not expect to see this. Signs of a head gasket starting to go bad yeah. But bent pushrods. Never entered my mind!!
Looks like it's rebuild time. I haven't pulled the valve covers yet so there may be more damage that I haven't seen yet. I said I was in it till it's right again so,....
Looking at options now. I do know that I will be grinding some on the intake. The casting slag is everywhere. I have to finish pulling the motor. I have along way to go yet. Then break it down to determine the full extent of the damage. It is amazing tho. The motor only had a slight vibration at idle and slightly down on power. The funny part is that it kept getting better and better as I worked out the problems, in all aspects that I never imagined catastrophic failure.
Many thanks to all who tried to help figure this out. Hope this helps someone else in figuring out a hesitation at idle. Ya just never know where it's gonna take you. I was so sure it was something simple. I should have run a compression check a long time ago. I just kept putting it off cause I thought it was simple. Hindsight is 20 20 tho.
Thanks
Charlie
#99
Bent pushrods don't necessarily mean rebuild time. There are many things that can cause pushrods to bend.
If the engine had been sitting awhile, the valves could have been frozen, and the pushrod bent. If the lifters were old and tired, the pushrod could have fallen out of the rocker slightly, got jammed into something, bent, then fallen out. In fact, there was just someone else here recently who had a 460 that bent a bunch of pushrods. He put new pushrods in, and it was fine afterwards.
I'd personally just get a set of pushrods, slowly crank the engine over and verify everything is moving, and then see how it goes.
If the engine had been sitting awhile, the valves could have been frozen, and the pushrod bent. If the lifters were old and tired, the pushrod could have fallen out of the rocker slightly, got jammed into something, bent, then fallen out. In fact, there was just someone else here recently who had a 460 that bent a bunch of pushrods. He put new pushrods in, and it was fine afterwards.
I'd personally just get a set of pushrods, slowly crank the engine over and verify everything is moving, and then see how it goes.
#100
I had thought about that but wasn't sure if it is a wise decision.
My reasoning on going to a rebuild is 170 K on the clock. I still don't know the extent of the damage done.
There might not be anything more but I don't know. Yet!
I'd have to pull heads to install pushrods and of course new gaskets buy this point it would be easy to refresh everything and costs diff not that much more. Labor from me no cost. But if I rebuild little more work and a refreshed motor. I won't have to tear down again and replace all that I might have replaced.
I did think that it might be smart to pull heads have them redone and then put back together after checking the bottom end out for wear. Either way I will probably pull the engine no matter what!
It'll be easier to work on matter what.
I'd be doing most of the work already and it would be alittle more to have a fresh engine both cost and work wise.
I'm taking a few days to think about it before I make a decision for sure. I really am not sure what to do at this point. I really need to get her running reliably soon. Winter is just around the corner. We don't always get a lot of snow where I live, but if we have a bad year I could be stuck in for a week.
Not rebuilding is a gamble. I'm not sure what route to take. I don't want to keep throwing money and time away. I definitely am tired of spending so much time on the truck. I do have other things to do that require time investment. Right now without truck it is slowing me down considerably.
Where to go and what to do!! Really not sure what to do. Any thoughts on this? Just trying to make a plan and push forward.
Thanks
Charlie
My reasoning on going to a rebuild is 170 K on the clock. I still don't know the extent of the damage done.
There might not be anything more but I don't know. Yet!
I'd have to pull heads to install pushrods and of course new gaskets buy this point it would be easy to refresh everything and costs diff not that much more. Labor from me no cost. But if I rebuild little more work and a refreshed motor. I won't have to tear down again and replace all that I might have replaced.
I did think that it might be smart to pull heads have them redone and then put back together after checking the bottom end out for wear. Either way I will probably pull the engine no matter what!
It'll be easier to work on matter what.
I'd be doing most of the work already and it would be alittle more to have a fresh engine both cost and work wise.
I'm taking a few days to think about it before I make a decision for sure. I really am not sure what to do at this point. I really need to get her running reliably soon. Winter is just around the corner. We don't always get a lot of snow where I live, but if we have a bad year I could be stuck in for a week.
Not rebuilding is a gamble. I'm not sure what route to take. I don't want to keep throwing money and time away. I definitely am tired of spending so much time on the truck. I do have other things to do that require time investment. Right now without truck it is slowing me down considerably.
Where to go and what to do!! Really not sure what to do. Any thoughts on this? Just trying to make a plan and push forward.
Thanks
Charlie
#102
#103
Alright!!
I have taken time to think this thru and get my stuff straight. It finally occurred to me that I have gone from diagnosing the problem to in reality fixing a physical problem . No wonder I had issues getting answers with the push rods 3 literally laying in the valley and a couple more severely bent. Of course it was smoking. Of course the vacuum was fluctuating. Honestly it is amazing how well it ran with the issues she had.
So I took time to form a working plan to get er done!!!
Starting with replacing the obviously damaged parts. But here is the kicker to this.
As each push rod gets replaced. I am going to examine the components around and the parts that physically touch the push rods for indications of damage wear etc. If I find any other problems. Off come the heads and their getting a complete rebuild or finding heads that can be rebuilt if needed. If I find lifter damage. We are stopping and pulling the engine. Then the big decisions come long block or rebuild.
This plan solves lots of problems as I go along with hopes to just repair the push rods as the best case repair but pushing forward at the same time. Taking time to look for damages warranting more repair than it looks like but still moving forward. To do this all at once seems difficult but if I replace the pushrods one cylinder at a time and inspect as I go I should find any hidden or less obvious problems without wasting time or money. I intend to replace the push rods by following the firing order adjusting the valves as I go. Before replacing the push rods I will inspect the rockers and lifters for each cylinder first.
Then examine what can be seen of the valves and making sure the valves are not stuck in place. If I get thru all cylinders without finding damage, I am going to assume everything is okay and button it back up and go for broke.
That's the only risky part of the plan. But it seems to be a calculated risk. Lifter damage would mean lifter and cam replacement so then proceeding on to replace or rebuild. Rocker damage means heads come off and then see what I can see. But as I go I am assuming fine until I'm proven otherwise.
Taking this path seems to work. I am repairing the damage but still looking for more damage.. If none found I keep on repairing the damages.
I have two results possible.
1) I replace pushrods, adjust valves, clean up the top end and get back in business.
2) I find more damage but let the engine tell me what has to be done next.
That's the plan for now.
Anyone with a better plan let me know what you think. If I forgot something yell it out.
This way I believe I will solve the problem or find the rest of the problems but still move forward to the end goal of having a running and working vehicle. I still have work to do but it keeps moving forward without spending extra time or money on parts.
Thanks
Charlie
I have taken time to think this thru and get my stuff straight. It finally occurred to me that I have gone from diagnosing the problem to in reality fixing a physical problem . No wonder I had issues getting answers with the push rods 3 literally laying in the valley and a couple more severely bent. Of course it was smoking. Of course the vacuum was fluctuating. Honestly it is amazing how well it ran with the issues she had.
So I took time to form a working plan to get er done!!!
Starting with replacing the obviously damaged parts. But here is the kicker to this.
As each push rod gets replaced. I am going to examine the components around and the parts that physically touch the push rods for indications of damage wear etc. If I find any other problems. Off come the heads and their getting a complete rebuild or finding heads that can be rebuilt if needed. If I find lifter damage. We are stopping and pulling the engine. Then the big decisions come long block or rebuild.
This plan solves lots of problems as I go along with hopes to just repair the push rods as the best case repair but pushing forward at the same time. Taking time to look for damages warranting more repair than it looks like but still moving forward. To do this all at once seems difficult but if I replace the pushrods one cylinder at a time and inspect as I go I should find any hidden or less obvious problems without wasting time or money. I intend to replace the push rods by following the firing order adjusting the valves as I go. Before replacing the push rods I will inspect the rockers and lifters for each cylinder first.
Then examine what can be seen of the valves and making sure the valves are not stuck in place. If I get thru all cylinders without finding damage, I am going to assume everything is okay and button it back up and go for broke.
That's the only risky part of the plan. But it seems to be a calculated risk. Lifter damage would mean lifter and cam replacement so then proceeding on to replace or rebuild. Rocker damage means heads come off and then see what I can see. But as I go I am assuming fine until I'm proven otherwise.
Taking this path seems to work. I am repairing the damage but still looking for more damage.. If none found I keep on repairing the damages.
I have two results possible.
1) I replace pushrods, adjust valves, clean up the top end and get back in business.
2) I find more damage but let the engine tell me what has to be done next.
That's the plan for now.
Anyone with a better plan let me know what you think. If I forgot something yell it out.
This way I believe I will solve the problem or find the rest of the problems but still move forward to the end goal of having a running and working vehicle. I still have work to do but it keeps moving forward without spending extra time or money on parts.
Thanks
Charlie
#105
Well had a whole update typed in and it disappeared.
Long a short of it. No damage found other than pushrods bent.
In process of putting it back together.
Another day or two and I should know something about now it runs..
Woulda been done but had to replace some air tools. There only 20 yrs old or so. I don't make me to last anymore. LOL.
Raining cats n dogs now. Oh well, another day or two should see the light at the end of tunnel.
I'll let y'all know the results soon.
Anyways its Football time in Tennessee!! Go VOLS!!
Thanks
Charlie
Long a short of it. No damage found other than pushrods bent.
In process of putting it back together.
Another day or two and I should know something about now it runs..
Woulda been done but had to replace some air tools. There only 20 yrs old or so. I don't make me to last anymore. LOL.
Raining cats n dogs now. Oh well, another day or two should see the light at the end of tunnel.
I'll let y'all know the results soon.
Anyways its Football time in Tennessee!! Go VOLS!!
Thanks
Charlie