HELP... diag HPOP leak, I am going in right direction?
#1
HELP... diag HPOP leak, I am going in right direction?
Just want to make sure I'm going in the right direction.
Original owner F-250, early 2003 6.0, 110k, 13 years trouble free.
Mechanically inclined yes, PS expert no.
Tons of searching, think I'm almost there.
Starts fine cold, as warms up start loosing power then stalls and no restart hot.
Repeatable. Approached thinking fuel issue,
1. Filters & fuel pressure - ok
2. ICP - ok - KOEO 0psi /.18~.24v - starts cold 800psi/1v
3. Cylinder Contribution - seems ok / Bubble test - ok
4......... check ICP & IPR
Here's what I've found and just trying to get some feed back.
cold KOEO ICP 0psi/.18v || IPR 15%
Start ICP 800psi +/- || IPR 30%
Warming up idle, slow drop ICP 625psi || IPR 29~30%
warm idle ICP 625psi || 29-30% (holds pretty steady there)
warm slight raise rpms ICP 1000psi || IPR 39% - comes back to idle
warm higher rpm test (FAIL) ICP dumps below 500psi || IPR closes 85% Happens fast, stalls, no restart.
Wondering if this sounds familiar?
Next step get ICP adapter and air/pressure test system with IPR commanded closed.
I'm thinking more leak then failed pump?
Or... perhaps pull IPR and check screen, etc? If has crap in it can it still run from 15% - 85%?
If clogged up, or is that just what the systems asking for or actual?
Going in right direction?
Original owner F-250, early 2003 6.0, 110k, 13 years trouble free.
Mechanically inclined yes, PS expert no.
Tons of searching, think I'm almost there.
Starts fine cold, as warms up start loosing power then stalls and no restart hot.
Repeatable. Approached thinking fuel issue,
1. Filters & fuel pressure - ok
2. ICP - ok - KOEO 0psi /.18~.24v - starts cold 800psi/1v
3. Cylinder Contribution - seems ok / Bubble test - ok
4......... check ICP & IPR
Here's what I've found and just trying to get some feed back.
cold KOEO ICP 0psi/.18v || IPR 15%
Start ICP 800psi +/- || IPR 30%
Warming up idle, slow drop ICP 625psi || IPR 29~30%
warm idle ICP 625psi || 29-30% (holds pretty steady there)
warm slight raise rpms ICP 1000psi || IPR 39% - comes back to idle
warm higher rpm test (FAIL) ICP dumps below 500psi || IPR closes 85% Happens fast, stalls, no restart.
Wondering if this sounds familiar?
Next step get ICP adapter and air/pressure test system with IPR commanded closed.
I'm thinking more leak then failed pump?
Or... perhaps pull IPR and check screen, etc? If has crap in it can it still run from 15% - 85%?
If clogged up, or is that just what the systems asking for or actual?
Going in right direction?
#2
The IPR can have crud in it and still read 15 to85%, those numbers are what the ecm is commanding, not what the valve is actually doing. On an 03 you very well may have a bad HPOP, they were a weaker design than later years. Mine went out about the same way yours is acting and I replaced it with the Dieselsite Adrenaline pump and it has been great. I have seen 3 or 4 others that had problems with remanned OEM pumps.
#3
Just want to make sure I'm going in the right direction.
Original owner F-250, early 2003 6.0, 110k, 13 years trouble free.
Mechanically inclined yes, PS expert no.
Tons of searching, think I'm almost there.
Starts fine cold, as warms up start loosing power then stalls and no restart hot.
Repeatable. Approached thinking fuel issue,
1. Filters & fuel pressure - ok
2. ICP - ok - KOEO 0psi /.18~.24v - starts cold 800psi/1v
3. Cylinder Contribution - seems ok / Bubble test - ok
4......... check ICP & IPR
Here's what I've found and just trying to get some feed back.
cold KOEO ICP 0psi/.18v || IPR 15%
Start ICP 800psi +/- || IPR 30%
Warming up idle, slow drop ICP 625psi || IPR 29~30%
warm idle ICP 625psi || 29-30% (holds pretty steady there)
warm slight raise rpms ICP 1000psi || IPR 39% - comes back to idle
warm higher rpm test (FAIL) ICP dumps below 500psi || IPR closes 85% Happens fast, stalls, no restart.
Wondering if this sounds familiar?
Next step get ICP adapter and air/pressure test system with IPR commanded closed.
I'm thinking more leak then failed pump?
Or... perhaps pull IPR and check screen, etc? If has crap in it can it still run from 15% - 85%?
If clogged up, or is that just what the systems asking for or actual?
Going in right direction?
Original owner F-250, early 2003 6.0, 110k, 13 years trouble free.
Mechanically inclined yes, PS expert no.
Tons of searching, think I'm almost there.
Starts fine cold, as warms up start loosing power then stalls and no restart hot.
Repeatable. Approached thinking fuel issue,
1. Filters & fuel pressure - ok
2. ICP - ok - KOEO 0psi /.18~.24v - starts cold 800psi/1v
3. Cylinder Contribution - seems ok / Bubble test - ok
4......... check ICP & IPR
Here's what I've found and just trying to get some feed back.
cold KOEO ICP 0psi/.18v || IPR 15%
Start ICP 800psi +/- || IPR 30%
Warming up idle, slow drop ICP 625psi || IPR 29~30%
warm idle ICP 625psi || 29-30% (holds pretty steady there)
warm slight raise rpms ICP 1000psi || IPR 39% - comes back to idle
warm higher rpm test (FAIL) ICP dumps below 500psi || IPR closes 85% Happens fast, stalls, no restart.
Wondering if this sounds familiar?
Next step get ICP adapter and air/pressure test system with IPR commanded closed.
I'm thinking more leak then failed pump?
Or... perhaps pull IPR and check screen, etc? If has crap in it can it still run from 15% - 85%?
If clogged up, or is that just what the systems asking for or actual?
Going in right direction?
Unless you have a serious injector leak, its time for an HPOP. Save your money, buy the Adrenaline pump as numerous people are finding bad OEM rebuilt pumps right out of the box and more often than not, taking 3-4 tries to get a good one.
#4
I would remove the icp sensor, install a manual / hydraulic with a long then drive the truck until the truck stalls out. Without verifying it is losing / not making pressure, you might be just replacing parts for no good reason. If it loses pressure, as you asking about, then replace the ipr valve / regulator. Repeat the same test as before. You should not be see the pressure fall if the pump is still good. If it does fall replace the HPOP pump. I would also replace the "stand-pipe" O-rings, too but mainly as a precaution. Might consider doing the fuel pressure upgrade spring & EGR delete, as the intake manifold has to come off anyway. Then finish it off with a aux / added coolant filter mod. You could go further & replace your oil cooler, too. After all, I doubt you will want to sell it after it is repaired. GO NUTS!!!
#5
Closed is 14.8% AND fully open is 85%... the 30-40% IPR says its either got the screen stuck in the valve or your HPOP is dying... warm oil is hard to build pressure with, why as it warms it begins to loose power.
Unless you have a serious injector leak, its time for an HPOP. Save your money, buy the Adrenaline pump as numerous people are finding bad OEM rebuilt pumps right out of the box and more often than not, taking 3-4 tries to get a good one.
Unless you have a serious injector leak, its time for an HPOP. Save your money, buy the Adrenaline pump as numerous people are finding bad OEM rebuilt pumps right out of the box and more often than not, taking 3-4 tries to get a good one.
#6
Just want to make sure I'm going in the right direction.
Original owner F-250, early 2003 6.0, 110k, 13 years trouble free.
Mechanically inclined yes, PS expert no.
Tons of searching, think I'm almost there.
Starts fine cold, as warms up start loosing power then stalls and no restart hot.
Repeatable. Approached thinking fuel issue,
1. Filters & fuel pressure - ok
2. ICP - ok - KOEO 0psi /.18~.24v - starts cold 800psi/1v
3. Cylinder Contribution - seems ok / Bubble test - ok
4......... check ICP & IPR
Here's what I've found and just trying to get some feed back.
cold KOEO ICP 0psi/.18v || IPR 15%
Start ICP 800psi +/- || IPR 30%
Warming up idle, slow drop ICP 625psi || IPR 29~30%
warm idle ICP 625psi || 29-30% (holds pretty steady there)
warm slight raise rpms ICP 1000psi || IPR 39% - comes back to idle
warm higher rpm test (FAIL) ICP dumps below 500psi || IPR closes 85% Happens fast, stalls, no restart.
Wondering if this sounds familiar?
Next step get ICP adapter and air/pressure test system with IPR commanded closed.
I'm thinking more leak then failed pump?
Or... perhaps pull IPR and check screen, etc? If has crap in it can it still run from 15% - 85%?
If clogged up, or is that just what the systems asking for or actual?
Going in right direction?
Original owner F-250, early 2003 6.0, 110k, 13 years trouble free.
Mechanically inclined yes, PS expert no.
Tons of searching, think I'm almost there.
Starts fine cold, as warms up start loosing power then stalls and no restart hot.
Repeatable. Approached thinking fuel issue,
1. Filters & fuel pressure - ok
2. ICP - ok - KOEO 0psi /.18~.24v - starts cold 800psi/1v
3. Cylinder Contribution - seems ok / Bubble test - ok
4......... check ICP & IPR
Here's what I've found and just trying to get some feed back.
cold KOEO ICP 0psi/.18v || IPR 15%
Start ICP 800psi +/- || IPR 30%
Warming up idle, slow drop ICP 625psi || IPR 29~30%
warm idle ICP 625psi || 29-30% (holds pretty steady there)
warm slight raise rpms ICP 1000psi || IPR 39% - comes back to idle
warm higher rpm test (FAIL) ICP dumps below 500psi || IPR closes 85% Happens fast, stalls, no restart.
Wondering if this sounds familiar?
Next step get ICP adapter and air/pressure test system with IPR commanded closed.
I'm thinking more leak then failed pump?
Or... perhaps pull IPR and check screen, etc? If has crap in it can it still run from 15% - 85%?
If clogged up, or is that just what the systems asking for or actual?
Going in right direction?
#7
I would remove the icp sensor, install a manual / hydraulic with a long then drive the truck until the truck stalls out. Without verifying it is losing / not making pressure, you might be just replacing parts for no good reason. If it loses pressure, as you asking about, then replace the ipr valve / regulator. Repeat the same test as before. You should not be see the pressure fall if the pump is still good. If it does fall replace the HPOP pump. I would also replace the "stand-pipe" O-rings, too but mainly as a precaution. Might consider doing the fuel pressure upgrade spring & EGR delete, as the intake manifold has to come off anyway. Then finish it off with a aux / added coolant filter mod. You could go further & replace your oil cooler, too. After all, I doubt you will want to sell it after it is repaired. GO NUTS!!!
trucks an 03'
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#9
I guess I'm trying to get my head around the steps to diagnose.
It may indeed be the pump, so the drift is just replacement pump?
If pump was total fail it would be a no start.
The signs of oil pressure drop are different from a leak, clogged/bad IPR or weak pump or
are they the same?
I'm not saying it's not a pump, just in the 13 years I've had the truck the only
issues so far have been from oring failures, erg cooler hose, fuel regular, etc. seems
like a trend.
Has anyone seen the above types of pressure drops in psi from other things beside the pump?
I'm thinking....
1. Pressure test with IPR commanded closed - Do we hear leaks?
2. Pull IPR inspect / clean - visually inspect
3. Replace pump
Should diagnosis start with step 3->1 and work backwards if doesn't fix or step 1->3
I know 03/04 pump is majority of times the problem.
It may indeed be the pump, so the drift is just replacement pump?
If pump was total fail it would be a no start.
The signs of oil pressure drop are different from a leak, clogged/bad IPR or weak pump or
are they the same?
I'm not saying it's not a pump, just in the 13 years I've had the truck the only
issues so far have been from oring failures, erg cooler hose, fuel regular, etc. seems
like a trend.
Has anyone seen the above types of pressure drops in psi from other things beside the pump?
I'm thinking....
1. Pressure test with IPR commanded closed - Do we hear leaks?
2. Pull IPR inspect / clean - visually inspect
3. Replace pump
Should diagnosis start with step 3->1 and work backwards if doesn't fix or step 1->3
I know 03/04 pump is majority of times the problem.
#10
#11
An air test would not be a waste of time, neither would be pulling the IPR to see if it ate the screen.
Leaks are the same as a pressure drop. Your IPR % is high, at idle it should be 21-22%, your is 30%, that's high. 24-25% would be more in line with a leak, 30% is a gusher or low pressure output from the pump.
The real indicator is the high RPM ICP dump to <500psi and then a stall. The higher demanding injectors are more than the pump can make and you need more than 500psi to run. Idle should be 580-650psi, tuned can be around 650, normal is around 580, your can't make enough to run when the hammers down.
Like you said, 13 years old, prone to failure, no stand pipes or dummy plugs or STC fitting... you either have a massive oil leak that would fill a valve cover full (injector leak) or the pump is dying.
Leaks are the same as a pressure drop. Your IPR % is high, at idle it should be 21-22%, your is 30%, that's high. 24-25% would be more in line with a leak, 30% is a gusher or low pressure output from the pump.
The real indicator is the high RPM ICP dump to <500psi and then a stall. The higher demanding injectors are more than the pump can make and you need more than 500psi to run. Idle should be 580-650psi, tuned can be around 650, normal is around 580, your can't make enough to run when the hammers down.
Like you said, 13 years old, prone to failure, no stand pipes or dummy plugs or STC fitting... you either have a massive oil leak that would fill a valve cover full (injector leak) or the pump is dying.
#12
#13
Mine is an 04'.
It makes 580 at idle and nearly 4000 at WOT. My IPR sits at 21.4% at 650RPM.
Watch your starting ICP, it should hit 1200+ when it fires, mine hits 1500+ and settles to 650 until it starts to warm up. Once warm, 580 all day long.
Cruising down the road, it holds 1000'ish at 65mph, yours is struggling as the throttle requirement goes up and basically runs out of steam, pressure should match demand... typical of a failing pump. It can't keep up and is low on power when you step down.
Consider the Adrenalin pump as the reman OEM pumps from Ford are failures out of the box 50-75% of the time.
It makes 580 at idle and nearly 4000 at WOT. My IPR sits at 21.4% at 650RPM.
Watch your starting ICP, it should hit 1200+ when it fires, mine hits 1500+ and settles to 650 until it starts to warm up. Once warm, 580 all day long.
Cruising down the road, it holds 1000'ish at 65mph, yours is struggling as the throttle requirement goes up and basically runs out of steam, pressure should match demand... typical of a failing pump. It can't keep up and is low on power when you step down.
Consider the Adrenalin pump as the reman OEM pumps from Ford are failures out of the box 50-75% of the time.
#14
Mine is an 04'.
It makes 580 at idle and nearly 4000 at WOT. My IPR sits at 21.4% at 650RPM.
Watch your starting ICP, it should hit 1200+ when it fires, mine hits 1500+ and settles to 650 until it starts to warm up. Once warm, 580 all day long.
Cruising down the road, it holds 1000'ish at 65mph, yours is struggling as the throttle requirement goes up and basically runs out of steam, pressure should match demand... typical of a failing pump. It can't keep up and is low on power when you step down.
Consider the Adrenalin pump as the reman OEM pumps from Ford are failures out of the box 50-75% of the time.
It makes 580 at idle and nearly 4000 at WOT. My IPR sits at 21.4% at 650RPM.
Watch your starting ICP, it should hit 1200+ when it fires, mine hits 1500+ and settles to 650 until it starts to warm up. Once warm, 580 all day long.
Cruising down the road, it holds 1000'ish at 65mph, yours is struggling as the throttle requirement goes up and basically runs out of steam, pressure should match demand... typical of a failing pump. It can't keep up and is low on power when you step down.
Consider the Adrenalin pump as the reman OEM pumps from Ford are failures out of the box 50-75% of the time.
Hard not to consider the Adrenalin pump with all the recommendations.
#15
they carry a two year warranty same as Ford. Guarantied to run out of the box and they claim better fuel mileage with the high output unit.... but nearly $2k for the high output pump is steep. I think the stock replacement is $300 more than OEM.
When mine dies, I'm going with the Adrenaline pump. I want to go in once, not a couple times and then hope it doesn't die in a week.
When mine dies, I'm going with the Adrenaline pump. I want to go in once, not a couple times and then hope it doesn't die in a week.