Morn'in from the Catskill Mountains of Up-State NY.


Picked up an 03 F350 CCLB SRW awhile back to fix up and use as my "Checkin Out" hauler for the up and coming golden years. I'll be drag'in a 38 foot 12K lbs 5th wheel Taj Mohall around the country with my better half and our 2 German Shepherd Dogs.


Been going over the truck, 1 owner with 159K miles, XLT Automatic with manual hubs, And adding parts as I can afford them. You can see the progress in my signature.


I'm to the point of making an injector decision and struggling with the plethora of opinions and options regarding such. Stay Stock? 160/30? Single shots? 238/80 Hybrids?


I don't mind spending money on my Truck and I'm the type to do everything while I'm there. That said I also don't like wasting money on stuff I really don't need and this truck needs to be a reliable tow rig.


I'd like to hear from a few of you that have a similar setup as mine and do heavy long hauls. What injectors did you decide to go with? why? and are you happy?


Like to thank all that contribute to the Forum. I've learned a ton and had fun reading all the post over the years.

 

Friend, I cannot help you with your choice of injectors as that seems to be a personal choice. I can tell you what I plan to do next summer with the truck in my signature.

I either plan to go with Unlimited Diesel single shot remanufactured or send my cores right out of the truck to Jim at Rosewood for the premium build. The price difference is negligible and the decision to go with single shot or stock split will probably based on how I feel that day.

As for other things to do while you are working on the injectors is to check the under valve cover harnesses (UVCH) and gaskets. Also the glow plugs (OEM only) are a good idea to knock out too.

 

If you are going to spend your golden years cruising between tractor pulls and mud bogs, plus you like wrenching - there all kinds of power upgrades to suggest for passing those fart-tube ricers while hauling the 38-footer. Now... if you are going to cruise the country by hopping from park to park - you don't have a lot of wrenching opportunities. I'll assume the latter.

Clearly, the simplest and most reliable solution is stock. If I wanted a little git-'em up for towing and keep the reliability throughout the drivetrain - I wouldn't go any taller than a stock-nozzled International Harvester 160 injector. Once you leave the split-shot stock injectors behind, you also leave any chance of keeping the stock tunes.

In your situation, I'd pick the IH 160s, grab the Hydra chip, make sure the fuel mods are done (get the air out of the fuel), throw a little more turbo in there (maybe a 38R, maybe something that can be rebuilt), and add a bigger intake/exhaust.

Not part of your question, but I feel is very important: I don't care if the vehicle is stock and has 10 miles on the odo - it's over 12 years old, and you will run into issues here and there. You will also be putting the system to the test, and a less-than-100% truck can cause more than inconvenience or a big fuel bill. To that end... I always, always, always emphasize gauges. Analog for EGTs and Fuel Pressure (no sensors for these on the truck), and OBDII gauges to make use of all those expensive sensors built into the truck. I have dual EGTs (left and right manifolds), fuel pressure, and I use the Torque Pro OBDII app on a tablet. I have caught many things "live" that I would have otherwise missed - and drove blithely on with a hurt truck.

 

I too am in the quest for the perfect 12-14K tow rig like CRoser. If running new IH 160 injectors with the hydra and all supporting mods and gauges to monitor engine/trans health, how much hp and torque would be considered reliable. I guess what I am asking is--is it realistic to think a 7.3 with a ZF6(in my case) can be made to can tow 12-14K lbs up a 7* grade at 65 MPH and keep EGT's in check?

 

Thanks Tugly, I did consider the AC's because they can be had new. Who's got the best deal on a set of the AP63802AC these day's.

I never understood why a core is required when purchasing a new part. Remanufactured, yes but new. Its a rip-off.

 

I've been doing quite a bit of research on the matter and have a similar setup as yours with the exception of a T500 HPOP. I've talked to tuners Gearhead/PHP and with injector suppliers. W/O the T500 the consistent recommendation is 160/0 (AC) or 160/30 which is favored and a great match to the 38R. I don't see either as a bad choice.

 

I think its because the original manufacturer destroys the cores to limit the supply for the after market remans, so you have to buy new.
Clay at Riffraff has great prices on new injectors, along with great service.

 

You already have your HYDRA, air in and out, and most of the other bases covered. After injectors it is all about tuning.

Again, when all else is healthy, and you are in the right RPM range, tuning will dictate EGT's in the situation you describe. My truck would probably do 65 on that grade with that weight but I don't ask it to.

Great people to deal with as far as tuning.

I have P.I.S. 160/30's and the only thing that I don't like about the decision I made is that I wish I had gone with 80% nozzles instead of 30%'ers just for fun.

Having stated that, I probably would have broken more stuff sooner (drive shaft bent from axle wrap)and eaten tires up in 30k miles instead of 60-70k.

Some may disagree, but when you look at fuel delivery tables that are adjusted for time: mS and RPM's, and ICP, the reason I would not go with 160's with stock nozzles is because you probably will not be able to efficiently use the available fuel, 160cc/1000 injection events, while towing or playing in the allotted time while keeping FIPW under 3mS, and ICP under about 2800-3000 while the engine is producing good HP numbers in the optimum RPM range. IIRC you'll only be able to access about 140-150cc, which is not much better than stock.

The 30% nozzles will allow most if not all of the fuel to be delivered in the optimally allotted time while keeping FIPW in check in the peak HP range.

EGT's-if you have a healthy stock HPOP you'll be fine with 30%'ers and more than likely 80%'ers as long as FIPW is kept in check. FIPW is established by the tune writer. If you see your FIPW going above 3.0mS at about 2600-2800 rpm's or if it is above 2.8 or higher at 3000 rpm's you'll more than likely have EGT's above the recommended 1250 limit. Again, your tune writer/author has as much to do with this as your injectors and HPOP, if not more. If he or she does not keep it in check then a T500 will not keep up with the oil demand and it will not be because the T500 is not capable. You'll also have ICP spikes: upwards of 4000 psi which cant't be good for your new injectors, HPOP, HPX, o-rings etc.

AS a general rule of thumb, high FIPW in the mid to upper RPM range leads to lower ICP which causes poor atomization of fuel which leads to loss of power, smoke, and high EGT's.

I called and talked to about 5 different vendors before I chose P.I.S. because they not only talked a good game but had the tables with all the pertinent/critical numbers/science available.

160/30% INJECTOR -Remans

http://shop.performanceinjectionsyst...ectors_c59.htm -New

One of the guys that works for PIS posts here occasionally. His name is Tim. He is knowledgeable and is a no BS kind of guy. Link to his profile:

Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - View Profile: Tim at pis

check out some of his posts in the pertinent threads.

 

X2 on the P.I.S. 160/30's, 38R and T500. I am running exactly that and like it a lot. The guys at P.I.S have great customer service, and I know you would pull that load without any problems if the tuning is good. The only draw back is because you 30% over sized nozzles, you won't be able to walk in to a Ford or International dealership and get one off the shelf so, if you are going to be hauling all over the country, it might not be a bad idea to have a spare injector to take with you just in case you run into an issue. That $300 or so buys a lot of piece of mind, so you won't have to be waiting around to have one shipped out to you while stranded on a holiday weekend somewhere.

 

80-100% is fun, but they do break stuff - I have the full ensemble: T-shirt, cap, scarf, beer cooler, and coffee mug.

New (I stress this) ACs with stock nozzles are off-the-shelf - 30% nozzles are tampered with (custom). To me... modified new injectors emphasizes a question mark on the injectors if any problems were to arise after install. Another tick on the "Leave-'em-alone" box is smaller nozzles means more torque at lower RPMs and cleaner emissions.

While there is no denying the stock AC can't empty at high RPMs, there is also no denying it will pass any chipped truck with stock ADs (more fuel and more torque across the RPM band). The split-shot AD brings the fuel way too late in the game to make good use of the peak compression - where the AC gets fuel in there when you want it. With the nature of of physics, this actually lowers the EGTs by default - all other parameters being equal.



Think about it: We need custom tunes to make the idle right, because even at the lowly little idle function - the ACs are already delivering too much fuel.

 

Thanks for posting that Rich. I think that graph is similar to, if not the same as, the one that P.I.S. sent a link to when I was replacing/upgrading.

It looks as though only about 150cc's are being delivered at 3.?+ mS with ICP around 3000. Is this correct?

 

If we take that chart as precise gospel, it looks to be about 150 CCs at 3ms, which is already more than a stocker can carry - no matter what ICP/FIPW. Couple that with the earlier fuel delivery and I feel we really can't throw stones at the IH AC 160/stock.

I notice 3.5ms at 3000 PSI gives you the full meal deal (if the HPOP can hold it). She'll run hot - but it will be tough to get that stupid look off one's face, and peel the corners of one's mouth from the ears.

 

Thanks for the follow-up. I did not intend for it to seem as though I was throwing stones at the IH 160's. Sorry if it came across that way. Correct, she will run hot.... and I doubt the HPOP can hold it which will cause it to run hotter.

The 160's are a nice upgrade; however, after having towed the same loads with 160's and then 160/30's in two different trucks, it is evident that the 30%'ers just seem to want to "get it done" even more so to the point that I find myself backing out of the throttle due to speed and not EGT's which is a huge improvement. That improvement is directly related to the injectors but even more so to the GH tuning.

I can't imagine what 160/80's would be like...

 

jhl3, what is oil byPF? To the OP, lot of guys on here love there 160 stock nozzles, they saying towing is much better with lower EGT's and good power. Even with 4.10 gears you won't be in the 3000 rpm range much if at all with 160 stock injectors.

 

Oil by-pass filter...if you add one, don't use the Amsoil BPF. The filters/mount are proprietary as far as I can find and hence they can charge whatever they desire. If someone knows of a work around, I am all ears. This truck came with it.

On the other hand, Amsoil claims they are 98.7% efficient at 2 microns.

Does anyone know who makes the filters for them?