I don't see any threads here relating to pricing and I wonder if this is an illegal topic here? If this isn't a legal question here, please let me know. I have priced out a 2016 Superduty XLT 4x4 6.2L crewcab with an invoice of 45K. Do you have any idea how much under invoice I can expect to pay not including incentives?

 

I purchased my truck in 2013 sticker said. 42 and some change, I left about 32 and a spray in liner and undercoat an paint protection . Both were to be about 600 each.

 

Go to NADA and price your truck with options you have ordered or want to order....the invoice price they give is pretty close to what you will pay less advertising and fuel charge....along with the other charges you have to pay such as taxes, doc fee, title, etc.

 

Paging @Frantz.

 

Tom, do you know what the invoice price was for your truck? Thanks.

 

That's a tricky one! Especially since you're from Baltimore. Here in Pa at my shop we generally offer USAA pricing at $500 under invoice, and TrueCar at $400 under. On a fully loaded truck there could be a few more bucks to go with. Down in Baltimore you'll see potentially more, however, the deal ends up being about the same. How can two trucks be sold at different prices be the same deal? All the padded fees and what counts as vehicle sale price. If you look at the internet advertising in MD you'll see most places say "does not include destination or document fees" or something along those lines. Well the destination is $1200 and doc fees there are normally $500 or so. Here in pa, the destination is part of the invoice (which I think it is in MD, but I believe I've see in other states (Oregon comes to mind, but I could be wrong) where it wasn't listed on the invoice at all, and doc fees in PA are capped at $134 (which I do find to be pretty reasonable). I've also seen "prep fees" added at some places, this is basically taking the overhead of the vehicle and making it a separate charge from the vehicle itself. If a dealership does this, you can go further on vehicle sale price than a dealership that includes all this.

If you have a chance to see the actual invoice, and as long as it is a retail invoice, you'll see the holdback amount listed. If you take invoice minus holdback you get the net cost. Now out of this you have to pay the sales folks, clean and wash the car, put fuel in it, whatever else is the cost. Normally all these cost go into a "pack" and this pack is normally $200-$300. So this has to get added (unless they have the prep fees).

It really is a mixed up mess and there isn't a straight forward answer. The online guides all warn against shopping by payment, but it really is the best last check as that comes down to math which can't lie. Honestly if you are shopping at any of the local shops in Baltimore you'll get a good price so long as you pull in the internet price ahead of time and stick to that car you should get a good deal. They'll add the rebates you don't qualify for back off but you'll still end up at a good price even with the higher fees (most of the time). Those guys are volume folks and make their money on back end products more than sale of the vehicle. So I might sell you a warranty much cheaper than they offer it to you. I can match their pricing just fine once I pull out all the extra rebates they add (which most don't qualify for) and account for destination and doc fee differences etc. My $500 under we give USAA folks is just as good as their pricing which they advertise at around $2000 less online. Think about it this way... how could they really be selling cars for less money than what Ford corporate employees get (Z plan) and be making profit? It's all the back end stuff they add back in (which ADXZ protects you from)

And... I sell 90% of my vehicles for $100 over invoice (close to X plan). Its the number I start at and I never am ashamed to let someone know what I'm making off them. But then I'm working in commercial with business folks who don't have time to waste going back and forth for a few hundred bucks, their time is worth more than that and I more than earn it by making everything quick easy and straight forward.

 

Nope. Perhaps Frantz can look that up?

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I can't look up invoices for trucks sold already so I'm not sure. If you want the invoice price for a new truck I've found True Car to give a pretty close figure WITHOUT having to enter personal info. You just build it with the options you want without requesting a "guaranteed savings certificate" or whatever they call it.

 

The Ford dealer, that I visited, is the largest volume dealer in Maryland. They have a $500 documentation charge but that is separate from the vehicle price. As you stated, there is a $1200 delivery charge included in the invoice price. Additionally, they have included a $700 advertising fee. This advertising fee astounds me because this invoice price is for a truck that isn't built yet because it is a truck I want to order. Why do I need to pay an advertising fee for a truck that would never sit on their lot?

So, I didn't get to see an actual invoice. Instead, the salesman showed me the invoice data as listed on the vehicle order confirmation form. The truck retail price is $48100 and the invoice price is $45400.

I looked up the True Car price for this truck and 3 shown prices average at about $40500. Does the True Car pricing include the delivery fee of $1200 or does the True Car pricing omit that fee from their price?

Thanks for all of your thoughts.

 

I have found that True Car and NADA do NOT include the Advertising fee nor the Fuel Fee Ford charges you. They do include the delivery, well NADA does. Documentation fees are a rip off. This one dealer I just bought a 2016 Fusion form was only $159.00. Another dealer in the area had $425 for doc fees.

What I paid for the 2016 Fusion I special ordered was exactly the same price as NADA showed less these fees - Fuel fee, Advertising charge.

 

prices vary based on location....metro areas being more pricey than suburbs and the sticks. In NYC, it seems for every hour west and south I drive , the price drops 1000 bucks.

do an auto trader search in a 500 mile radius and you will see what I mean. the last vehicle I bought new, within the 500 mile radius there were 3 price bands (the most common price locally, 2500 less 1-2 hours away, and 5000 less 3-5 hours away). I was prepared to drive 2 or 3 hours so I used the middle teir price as my target and flat out told the dealer they could save me a couple our trip by selling me their vehicle at my target price......after a few minutes of back office meetings thats exacly what they did.

 

I have come to the point where I won't even walk into a dealership until we meet on price vi email/phone. When I bought my truck I spent 10 minutes total in the showroom and that was to sign papers and pick up the keys when it came in. I got mine for around 47k and sticker was 55k.

 

^^^This. Do extensive research on pricing and print out all material. Negotiate with the internet sales team. Go to dealer with all your printed material and a calculator. Sales people realize when they are confronted with an educated buyer and would prefer just to get the deal done.

 

Exactly what I do. My last 3 Ford trucks were bought over the phone.

 

My dad and I started the phone/email practice on buying new. We call the dealerships we are willing to drive to and give them one chance to make the deal and they all know that. This practice has worked pretty well for us. I ordered a 16 F250 Platinum with a MSRP of 68,1xx.xx invoice was around the $63k mark and with a couple fleet rebates I was down around $58k.