Ok... Putting a filter AFTER the hpfp means a hell of a lot more maintenance cost. I still stand behind my statement about proper maintenance. The vast majority of people that have a failed hpfp have failed to use the correct filters or stay on top of water draining/filter maintenance. It is the same as a lot of piston failures after deleting. Generally at some point if you look into the actual history of the truck there will be a boosted launch or 3 (or heavy towing on an aggressive tune) or some other abuse.

The fuel system is just the same. If you aren't the original owner of your truck and you have a fuel system failure you can't speak to the maintenance. It sucks, but there is a reason the previous owner sold the truck, plain and simple. Most people who have owned the truck its whole life and have had a fuel system failure are somehow shocked to hear that those Napa filters are the cause of their grenade hpfp. Or they are the people who think its ok to only drain the hfcm when they do filters.

And just the same, if you are on a road trip and you stop for fuel at that po-dunk little gas station... Take a guess what is going into your tank.

But, as I have said... People don't want to hear the truth. I still won't ever tell someone that more filtration is a bad idea. There is a reason I am planning on a full fuel system build as soon as the funds are there... Water is a major issue. But the idea is to prevent the hpfp from eating itself. And adding a filter behind it isn't going to help anything. The cab is still going up to get it out and your injectors are still coming out because water has made its way through the system.

And fwiw we don't replace injectors and lines because of metal... We do it because of water. Rust is an indicator, not a cause for failure (although it can be). Water is what starts the ball rolling, and it damages the injectors just as much as the hpfp.

And our trucks don't have a sump... They have a pickup tube. The reason we have a lift pump is because there needs to be a way to draw that fuel from the tank without using the hpfp. That is a big reason why duramax owners go through so many high pressure pumps... Water screws them over just as much but so does excess wear.

 

CrazySob

The reason I dont buy the maint as a cuase theory or the bad fuel theory.....there is a very high incidence of failed high pressure pumps by fleet vehicles that have centralized tripple filtered fuel systems to dispense fuel into their trucks. There are high incidences of failed pumps with as low as 5K miles and the OEM says replace your filter at 20K.


one other thought was is there a drain back valve in the high pressure fuel pump system that prevents the pump from loosing fuel when off. so say if the pump does not have the anti drain and fuel flows back to the secondary filter...and If I always do an immediate full key turnt start...is my high pressure pump spining dry and how many times can that happen before I get flakes. I normally listen for my fuel pump to make sure fuel is being pumped up and I do notice the sound of a spin chnage if I wait long enough as the lift pump builds the 9 or 10 PSI. If this was the case I would stop blaming maint and water and come clean and start installing anti drain valves in the high pressure fuel pump system.

 

Yes there is a check valve in the fuel system, if there wasn't your truck would air lock itself and be a massive pita to start. It is always good to let your hfcm build up a little pressure (by the time your glow plug light goes out you are good to go) but your hpfp isn't going to be dry. The high pressure system doesn't work that way.

And as for fleet failures... Again, the 6.4 doesn't see any more hpfp failures than ram or gm... I can't say this enough, it is a problem with fuel quality and issues with maintenance. It is a well known, proven fact that if you change your filters every other oil change (or at 8k if deleted) and drain your hfcm at least monthly (should be every other week...) you shouldn't have any major problems. Its still possible for the pcv or vcv to stick or fail but that won't take injectors with it as long as you don't keep driving it (Either failure will set a cel and put the truck into limp mode).

We are talking about this like it is literally the end of the world... Our hpfp's don't fail any more than they would on a 6.7 or ANY variant of the Duramax. The cummins motors have always had injector and fuel pump issues (they kinda feed each other...). The only issue with a 6.4 or 6.7 is the cab must go up to replace the hpfp. But part wise they all cost the same to fix... It is just labor, and trust me the cost to change a failed hpfp on a Duramax isn't that much cheaper than on a Powerstroke.

 

its one of those things where I dont want to be stuck on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere becuase the high pressure fuel pump failed. the issue is common enough where googling 6.4L issues or problems is the #1 complaint.

the more I learn about this the better I can live with it. I have and airdog in front of my OEM lift pump so the odds that water would get pass the airdog is pretty remote....debris is trapped in the airdog filter and water gets either trapped by a much larger water catch or sent back to the tank. from there the pure fuel goes to the OEM lift pump. if either the airdog or the OEM lift fail, fuel at 10 PSI will still got to the high pressure pump. so the high pressure pump will never run dry and never get water or debris.

beyond that, theres not much more I can do...aside from draining water regularly and changing filters early.

whats really needed is a filter between the high pressure fuel pump and the fuel rail. becuase when the pump fails....its going to send metal to the injectors, and back to the tank becuase of the way the OEM system is setup.

 

I am going to throw this out there one more time... By the time the hpfp grenades the water has already done the damage to your injectors...

And again, a filter after the pump is only going to add to maintenance that people already fail to keep up on. A post pump filter will also do just as much damage if it clogs to the injectors. If you starve injectors they aren't going to have the proper pressure to actuate.

AAAAnnnnnnnDdddddDDD... Provided you are taking care of your fuel system (you are btw with your AD system) AND!!! Monitoring rail pressure you should never be left on the side of the road. You will see a drop or irregular rail pressure before it ever sets a p0087 or p0088 and throws the truck into limp mode. Yes its possible an injector hangs and torches a piston but remember if it gets to that point your injectors have already ingested water... And it has done its damage.

We should also talk about the fact that it isn't just the metal from the pump that kills things. Rust is actually the main culprit and it hides in every fuel line, crack, crevice, injector, and metal object in the fuel system. Once water touches the high pressure system it is done... Kaput.

I am really not trying to be a d1ck here and I hope it isn't coming off that way... But you don't seem to understand my point. I am not denying that more filtration is better, but you don't want to jeopardize the pressure after the pump by adding volume and a restriction after the pump that lowers pressure. That is only going to work against you, and its going to create yet another filter that must be replaced. A filter btw that is going to end up below the turbo.............. That's another cab up repair. You could connect it somehow to the fuel cooler, but still isn't going to add the benefits that you hope it would.


The key is and always will be clean dry fuel TO the hpfp so it can do its job. Using a quality fuel source, motorcraft filters that are changed on time, and a good additive that demulsifies will give your hpfp a long happy life. If you really want to make sure it doesn't fail add an aftermarket lift pump (AD2 or Fass) that will give you better filtration AND higher volume to the pump. And never ever ever ever ever forget that the single most important thing you can do besides basic maintenance on a diesel is monitor... If you don't have an Edge CTS or some other form of monitor you literally have no idea what your truck is doing.

 

The OP wants to replace his engine becuase its probally cheaper to buy roll over truck with a V-10 and transfer everything than it is to let ford do a "failed HPFP" repair. the OP followed the OEM maint shedules and did everything publications from the OEM said to do.

this problem is so common that I am sorry I can not endorse that the cuase is operators not doing something.

I hope no one will have to face the decisions the OP has to face and would like to believe if we all change our fuel filters every other oil service and check the water drain before we drive our trucks we would never have a problem.

I've owned my 6.4 for about 45 days now and have change the fuel filters 3 times. folks could put the wrong filter in, put the right filter in the wrong position, and use an earlier filter which does not have a second o-ring. that fact that later primary filters have a second o-ring tells me that FORD discovered the debris was getting past these filters and cuasing problems. we cant blame operators for using an earlier ford filter that did not have the new additional oring.

 

Is there an updated part number for the double o-ringed filter or is the only way to tell the physical appearance?

Thanks !

 

I'm on my iPhone so I can't post a link but Google

New Fuel Filter for the 6.0 from Ford? Motorcraft FD-4616

So the thread explans the difference and basically the earlier filters had no o ring in the internals . Ford quietly added the o ring

 

I have FD-4617 for the 6.4L. Where is the 2nd O-ing supposed to be on the large downstream port, positioned next to the 1st o-ring?

Mine's currently still in the plastic with what looks like a descantent (sp) pack covering it all. I don't want to unwrap it yet (humidity exposure) as I'm having problems with the fuel not stopping from the yellow drain. Caught over 1 gallon already.

 

I solved my problem , I bought a 03 with a 6L to drive until spring.

 

I would recommend installing a racor fuel water separator between the fuel tank and the HFCM. I have a racor fuel water separator on all my heavy equipment, heavy haul trucks, pick-ups etc...... I have found its cheap insurance to insure engines never see water. We run 2 micron fuel water separators, there changed every 200 hrs or every month which ever comes first. I usually tell people to change the ford factory every 15,000 miles as a minimum but i preffer looking at engine hours over anything.

Reguardless the engine any fuel system will suffer from water, the only difference is the time it takes for the damage to show up. I would recommend the racor regardless the applications.

We purchase all our fuel bulk, the fuel runs thru a a fuel water separator at the pump. The things we can not account for is condensation that can form in fuel tanks regardless the quality of fuel you buy or the source. This is where we found the additional racor filters really preform.

I really don't think the fuel quality was as big of a concern when these common rails like the 6.4 first came out. I look at new tier 4 and final tier 4 engines and its obvious how much additional considerations have gone into the importance of fuel quality. Some of the engines will actually shut down if water is found in the system after going thru the first set of filtration before it can hurt the engine or fuel system.

I just think some of the older engines need a little better filtration.

 

Which Racor? There are a ton of options on their site. I was also trying to pick one out for a boat with 454's and my head started spinning! Also where did you mount and what materials were needed including fittings?

 

Honestly the best setup right now is the diesel site filter... It is a dual separator/filter setup and a lot of the 6.7 guys love them.

 

I use the Racor 500FG10 on all my heavy equipment, heavy haul trucks and fleet pickups. You can get the filters anywhere from 30 micron to 2 micron, we run a 10 micron in that housing , the other filters on the equipment or trucks provide plenty of filtration. On a 6.4 the factory HFCM frame rail mounted assembly has a 10 micron filter, and the filter on top of the engine is a 4 micron filter.

Thru fleet parts we only pay around 185.00 for the assembly with the filter. The replacement filters are around 10 bucks.

If you go this route, There about 11 inches tall, when you mount it you need 5-6" to pull the top off to change the filter so consider that when you mount it. I just frame mounted the filters on all our F-450's and F-550's. Just plan ahead so the location you pick allows enough room to service the filter

Here is a link
Racor 500FG10

 

Wow, up to 950.00 for there filter........the fancy billet aluminum housing must cost 800.00 and the filters assemblies are 150...lol
I'll have stick to my little old racor thats less then 200 bucks and does the job just fine, unless i hit powerball !