Hey guys, may I tap on your expertise AND have some of your thoughts about injectors.


My '04 5.4 3v has 210,000 miles. Has the typical ragged idle at around 600 RPM. Over 100,000 K miles on the O2 sensors. About 50K on SP515 plugs. Mode $06 'almost always' reports Zero misfires in the last 10 drive cycles. STFT1 & 2 are normal (bobbles consistently around +- 3% to 5% and reacts normally to accelerator/coast). LTFT is warped out of shape (LTFT1 +14 to +17%, LTFT2 is -5% to -8%,). Live O2 sensor graphs look fine (except it will drop out of closed loop pretty easily, 50-60% load). Truck starts, runs, performs surprisingly well. Replacement of phaser's & all timing components is imminent due to reoccurring P0022 code. Decent oil pressure - idle 70 lbs cold, 19-21 hot, in gear, A/C on - 5w30.


With that backdrop:
Would it be worth the additional cost to replace ALL 8 injectors while doing the timing job? (I plan on preventative replacement of front O2's at the same time).


Could ragged idle be due, in part, to inconsistent injector flow?


Any fruitful way to 'calibrate' or check flow?


What the heck is the REAL difference with Motorcraft injectors ($97.00 ea) as opposed to those for half that cost?


There's half a dozen brands, Which ones are worth considering?


Would you go with 19lb or 24lb, or some higher flow?


What's with this claim of "high impedance". I know what impedance is, but isn't the coil resistance and current draw directly related to the work (or pulling strength) of the little solenoid coil can do? Would they work or be Better?


Would you use remanufactured?


Could someone recommend a good source?

How is one to know what to do?

 

IMHO, fuel trims are wacked due to the cam timing problem.
Check the actual readings (PIDs) for camshaft position while its running


The cam timing problem may be related to a worn cam tunnel in the right bank.
You know how common that is.
20 PSI is kinda low oil pressure and may be the root cause of your issue.
Replacing the right side head may clear up your issues.
Here is a good article on injectors. I know I says E bay in the address bar, but its an article, and a good one.

FUEL INJECTOR INFORMATION HIGH/LOW IMPEDANCE ? NOZZLES | eBay

One of the other techs I know used aftermarket injectors, IIRC they were Accel .OE spec for replacement. I would not change to a higher flow rate injector on a stock engine.It may not run better, but worse.
As flow rates get low, such as at idle, the injector on time is pretty short.An injector that is designed to dump more fuel will have to be turned on for a shorter amount of time,and may not operate consistently in Idle situations.

Given the possibility of low oil pressure being the root cause of the trouble, you might try a heavier oil just to see if the cam timing comes back into spec , or moves closer ,and to see if fuel trims move back together once cam timing looks to improve.

 

I'm with Leroy Axe - 20 lbs. of pressure at hot idle is on the low side and should be more around 25 (mine idles at 25 in gear on 5W-20 Motorcraft oil). Your issue most likely is going to be oil pressure. One common cause of low oil pressure is the timing chain tensioner seal(s) is partially blown out and bleeding off, causing lower pressure. But there are many things that can cause low oil pressure. From weak oil pumps, to main bearing wear, to excessive clearance at the cam journals, etc. As Leroy Axe said; try a heavier oil and see if the pressure picks up. Maybe a weight such as 10W-30. If the P0022 intermittent codes do not come back again, then you found your problem.

 

@Leroy Axe
Thanks for pointing me to the excellent article on INJECTORS. Points up the value of the forum - I've searched all over the place and never hit that one. Crazy that people marketing "low impedance" injectors with much fanfare don't tell you the most important things you need to know!!


I know I am facing an imminent timing job, and am planning for it if I live long enough and as soon as I am able to save up some social security money by cutting back on my more expensive prescriptions. Crestor maybe. Lol.


I think @07F150Lariat5.4 is likely right about tensioners. I plan to wholesale replace everything having to do with phasers and chains. Plus the water pump, idlers, oil pump, adjusters / followers, plugs, front O2 sensors, and drop the pan and clean/inspect the pickup screen. This is what lead me to the OP question. THE injectors are about the ONLY other thing closely associated with that big job that one can replace. In doing a little research, I quickly learned I do not know much about them mysterious little parts. Would it be worthwhile to replace them since they, like everything else, have 210,000 miles on them. (I calculate they have opened and closed approximately 125 to 150 million times - and had 2,280 gallons of (sometimes cheap) gas pumped through each one !!!) Yeeks. Do they ever deteriorate or lose their original calibration??

 

Howd'y neighbor F150Torqued,
which Fuel injectors did you go with?
Did you find your cause for the low oil pressure and did you swap to a heavier type of oil?


Thanks in advance.

Vroooooooom.

 

I replace my engine at 220k with a long block but a we know used alot of the old parts (due to budgetary restraints) needless to say I rigged up a straw system with some carburetor cleaner and a 9V battery and a set of alligator clips. Took out fuel rail and took off each injector (bought a new set of Orings for under 10 bucks) hooked the straw to each injector and hooked the ends of the 2 clips to injector and hooked one end to one side of 9v then spray the can at the same time I touch the last clip to the opposite 9v connector and repeated that process until the spray was clean coming out of the injector and repeated that 8 times. Cleaned out the fuel rail and that was almost 100k miles ago and no problem. Injectors rarely need replaced just cleaned out. Hope this helps and saves a **** ton of money. 800 for new injectors or 8 dollars for carb cleaner and 10 bucks for new o-rings.

 

That injector link on ebay does not seem to work now .I know f150 replaced his injectors. I did too but stayed with amazon new ones . I have no faith in remaned ones . Too much wear over time too much chance of intermittent failures due to mechanical wear . Duty cycle extremely high .I am not in to experimenting with different nozzles and lb stuff . The 05's had bad injectors from the factory so it was an easy decision to replace .
I agree diy cleaning is not a bad thing with new orings .
Doing a leak test on dry newspaper is very important with key on -pump running , dripping injector can hydro your engine .
New injectors I used were around $400 not too bad .But I still feel 100k mi is a lot for injectors. But I am more afraid of roller failure , but with my engine flush every other time and new oil pump I have more faith . However I have the old roller style /plastic tensioner when i did timing. .
I do need to study injectors as I have to fight with my stepson/grandson over carburetors, they don't want to learn the newer vehicles systems . They don't have a prayer going forward to working on their future vehicles and converting them to carb systems .