56 frontend help
#16
Oh, I just remembered Sid's method of deciding if you need a dropped steering arm or not: With the truck on the ground and the wheels straight ahead, stand on the driver's side frame or bumper, and bounce up and down. If the tire moves (turns) any when you do that it needs a dropped steering arm!
#17
Thanks AXracer
I did use the longer bolt heads when I installed the shims. I think I may need to have the frontend alignment rechecked since I found the loose steering arm.
I will call Sid about the steering arm before I go to the alignment shop. I will check the angle offset before I call him so he knows what I'm looking at. I will keep you guys informed of what I find. Hopefully this will help the next person that comes along.
I did use the longer bolt heads when I installed the shims. I think I may need to have the frontend alignment rechecked since I found the loose steering arm.
I will call Sid about the steering arm before I go to the alignment shop. I will check the angle offset before I call him so he knows what I'm looking at. I will keep you guys informed of what I find. Hopefully this will help the next person that comes along.
#18
Why not do your own alignment (unless the recheck is free) It's easy on the beam axle if you have a reasonably level flat surface to work on. Camber is not adjustable except by bending the axle, caster just need an inexpensive magnetic angle gauge or a 6"- 12" digital level. Toe in can be measured with a tape measure, a marker, and a helper or better by yourself with 2 tape measures and a set of homemade toe plates (I can provide drawings for the toe plates).
#19
AXracer
Please send me the drawings. I will check the toe-in tonight.
Here is a helpful tool to check caster. You can download an app for your phone. I think it is called level or bubble. As you put the phone by the axle it will show the bubble level and show the degrees at the bottom. It works perfect for this job. That's how I knew my truck was 4.95 caster on a level floor.
P.S. the tie-rod spacers from Mid. F. may be stainless now that you mentioned it. They look shiny so I thought they were aluminum, but the more I think about it no one would use aluminum in this stressful spot of your steering.
Please send me the drawings. I will check the toe-in tonight.
Here is a helpful tool to check caster. You can download an app for your phone. I think it is called level or bubble. As you put the phone by the axle it will show the bubble level and show the degrees at the bottom. It works perfect for this job. That's how I knew my truck was 4.95 caster on a level floor.
P.S. the tie-rod spacers from Mid. F. may be stainless now that you mentioned it. They look shiny so I thought they were aluminum, but the more I think about it no one would use aluminum in this stressful spot of your steering.
#21
#22
OK found my drawing. Make 2 plates sized to your vehicle from high quality 1/2 or 3/4" plywood or metal. If using plywood be sure it is very flat, not warped and put a finish on it to keep it that way. I made mine out of 1/4" aluminum plate. The plate dimensions should be 2" wider than the tire outside diameter x the height of 2" or more than 1/2 the tire diameter (depends if you want room for the handle above the centerline) the bottom piece should be 6-8" wide by length of gauge plate and hinged corner to corner so it can tip either way with a pair of quality cabinet hinges with tight pins. The plates need to be sized to your tire diameter. If your center hub extends out further than the tire sidewall, a clearance hole should be cut in the plate for it. The two slots should nearly but not quite touch the outer edge of the tire tread.and wide enough that the blade of your tape measure fits closely but easily into the slot. You will need two identical 8 or 10' tape measures and a couple weights (sandbags or birdshot bags work best, but a couple bricks will do in a pinch. The cutouts at the top are handles for carrying/hanging up when not using.
Draw the two centerlines on the face side (dashed lines in drawing).
To use:
1. Roll truck forwards and back a foot or so to verify wheels are set straight ahead, ending going forwards. block rear wheels. Place the plates solidly against the tire sidewall on each side of truck so it is touching all around. Align the centerlines with the center of the wheel.
2.Place a weight on base and against plate so it remains in place.
3. Place the hook ends of the two tape measures in the slots on one plate and string across to the other plate and slide into slot. Lock the tapes a couple inches past the plate an let hang in the slot to keep tension on the tapes. Read the two tapes. The front one should read a smaller measurement than the rear one. The difference in the two readings is the toe in. On our trucks, 1/8" total toe in should work well to reduce tramlining without excessive tire wear.
NOTE: If your truck is too low to allow the two tapes to run straight from plate to plate, cut a second set of slots in the plates identical in length to the first ones at an equal height from the ground so that the tapes will run clear across. As long as the plates are flat against the tire, the readings will still be valid. Make the plates as accurate as possible.
toe plates:
Draw the two centerlines on the face side (dashed lines in drawing).
To use:
1. Roll truck forwards and back a foot or so to verify wheels are set straight ahead, ending going forwards. block rear wheels. Place the plates solidly against the tire sidewall on each side of truck so it is touching all around. Align the centerlines with the center of the wheel.
2.Place a weight on base and against plate so it remains in place.
3. Place the hook ends of the two tape measures in the slots on one plate and string across to the other plate and slide into slot. Lock the tapes a couple inches past the plate an let hang in the slot to keep tension on the tapes. Read the two tapes. The front one should read a smaller measurement than the rear one. The difference in the two readings is the toe in. On our trucks, 1/8" total toe in should work well to reduce tramlining without excessive tire wear.
NOTE: If your truck is too low to allow the two tapes to run straight from plate to plate, cut a second set of slots in the plates identical in length to the first ones at an equal height from the ground so that the tapes will run clear across. As long as the plates are flat against the tire, the readings will still be valid. Make the plates as accurate as possible.
toe plates:
#23
(Hmm) I wonder if a laser level and or pointers could be used????
Doing toe in by stringing or measuring is also difficult to do because seldom can the string be run side to side at the horizontal centerline at the front and rear due to interference from frame, engine. That problem is solved with the plates above by using a lowered set of notches.
#24
I need help!!
The truck is roaming all over the road. I put everything new under the front end and had it aligned. I have the caster set at 4.5 degrees with the top tilting back and the wedges thicker at the back of the axle.
If I go over a bump or let off the gas from fast acceleration it wants to go off line.
I don't want to go to a modern suspension but if it is this dangerous to drive, I may have to.
Please help, should I add more caster or am I missing something.
The truck is roaming all over the road. I put everything new under the front end and had it aligned. I have the caster set at 4.5 degrees with the top tilting back and the wedges thicker at the back of the axle.
If I go over a bump or let off the gas from fast acceleration it wants to go off line.
I don't want to go to a modern suspension but if it is this dangerous to drive, I may have to.
Please help, should I add more caster or am I missing something.
Last edited by Mervy49; 11-17-2015 at 01:07 AM. Reason: I posted to the wrong thread so I roached it. I wasn' using my glasses.t
#25
Mervy49
Those were not my pictures. Some else posted those.
AXRacer
I tried the string method last night but I haven't driven it yet to see how it drove. This is what I did. I took 4 jack stands so I could adjust the height so it ran level with the center of all 4 wheels. Then I checked, double checked and triple checked these measurements. Spacing from string to string at the back two stands, Spacing from string to string at front stands, these need to be dead on. You also need to check the spacing from center of the two back wheels, these need to be dead on. You also need to check the spacing from the two front wheels, these need to be dead on. So basically you are creating a perfect box outside the truck. This took about an hour. Then check the front and back of the rear wheels to make sure they are running true to the truck.
Then you start checking the front and back of the front wheels for toe-in. Take the measurements and calculate properly. Mine had 1/4 toe-in I think the range was (1/16~1/8). I brought it between the two.
I don't know if this little adjustment will make much change but if it rides worse, I will make your jigs and try them next.
Those were not my pictures. Some else posted those.
AXRacer
I tried the string method last night but I haven't driven it yet to see how it drove. This is what I did. I took 4 jack stands so I could adjust the height so it ran level with the center of all 4 wheels. Then I checked, double checked and triple checked these measurements. Spacing from string to string at the back two stands, Spacing from string to string at front stands, these need to be dead on. You also need to check the spacing from center of the two back wheels, these need to be dead on. You also need to check the spacing from the two front wheels, these need to be dead on. So basically you are creating a perfect box outside the truck. This took about an hour. Then check the front and back of the rear wheels to make sure they are running true to the truck.
Then you start checking the front and back of the front wheels for toe-in. Take the measurements and calculate properly. Mine had 1/4 toe-in I think the range was (1/16~1/8). I brought it between the two.
I don't know if this little adjustment will make much change but if it rides worse, I will make your jigs and try them next.
#26
My next thought would be to get stiffer shocks or coil overs up front so I don't have so much travel in the front end. Since I removed two leaf springs, the front does ride a lot softer. This could be the reason for the drift from the drag link as we talked about earlier.
This could be why the stock trucks don't feel it as often.
This could be why the stock trucks don't feel it as often.
#27
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