DEFINITELY! the location sets the steering geometry and can affect bump steer. How much drop is in your axle? I'm not following how you are eliminating the springs, especially on the front?

 

On my F1 I drilled out the old ball stud and then had a professional welder weld in the new one, as my welding skills and 110v mig just weren't up to the task. On the drag link here is a pic of two of them from when I redid my steering, note you can see the slight bend in both of them.

 

Mine was so tight that I had to beat it in with a BFH. I didn't see the need to weld it at the bottom, although I did peen it.

John

 

Hi John, I hope you didn't think that I was comparing yours to mine in any way. I probably should have mentioned that my hole drilling skills weren't any better than my welding skills, so mine definitely required some welding. LOL. Take care my friend.

 

The bend is to give a little additional tire clearance at full lock turn.

 

Racer,


If I remember correctly, to prevent bump steer a line between the king
pin and the center of rear end must pass through the tie rod end on either side. I'm getting a little fuzzy on the exact layout of the arms so I'm going to go out tomorrow and get my s--t together and get back to you. As for eleminating the springs the four bar is going to keep the axle in place and the AirRide bag is going to hold up the frame. I'm thinking of a Watts Link rather than a panard bar for the side movement. Don't tell me you've tried it and it won't work because I've spent months making all of the brackets and what little Farmer Engineering I could come up with. I machined a special fitting for the axle end of the airbag to make it work like a U joint. I have a picture of it on my build site. I'll get back with you on the Spindle Arm ball location tomorrow.


Jim

 

Not at all. Just illustrating how different one truck can be from another-my ball stud was a super tight fit, yours was not, and another member will be somewhere in between. Or, if a person happens to wallow the hole a bit when they drill out the old one, they now know that it can be welded in place, and they don't have to try and find a new spindle.

John

 

No, I would never have considered trying it, and don't know anyone else that ever has used a 4 link and bags on a beam front axle, except possibly on the Ala kart show truck back in the late 50s, but that was never driven further than in and out of the trailer. So I don't know if it will work or not, you are pioneering new ground AFAIK. I'll be interested to see how you are going to steer this setup and how wild the bump steer gets with the front geometry a constantly moving target.
Can't say I've ever heard of the rear axle being used in the drag link geometry either, offhand I don't know why it would? Also be interested in the reference on this. I do understand the geometry of the parallel leaf OEM suspension/steering tho.
No, the Ala kart use split wishbones not 4 link. The bags were encased in coils that sat in deep cups top and bottom. As was the case in the 50's show car circuit, the practical aspects of the show vehicles were not considered or demonstrated, they often did not even run.

 

Racer,


The only thing that keeps the axle in line in the stock PU is the spring. It is subject to side sway and flexing, although not much and I'm thinking that the four bar with a Watts Link will do the same thing. As for supporting the weight, the 7000 and 9000 AirRide air bags should handle it easily. The rear is a triangleized four bar setup tha I've made myself, brackets and all. I'm thinking the bump steer shouldn't be any worse than with the springs, I hope. The axle is only a 3" drop because that was all Moore would do at the time. He also dropped my '34 sedan axle in 1952, the same man in the same building. He sold out and died shortly after doing my PU axle in the late 90's. I haven't done much in the way of Hot Rodding since I got married in 1957 so my expertize is probably not very good but being a farmer and starting out with no money, I've had to build most of the specialized equipment that was neede over the years. I'm used to a lot of failures, so if this doesn't work, I'll try something else. I do appreciate your input and first hand knowledge and I'm not shinning you on, but I've spent so much time and have so little time remaining , I've got to give this setup a try.
Thanks for the knowledge and keep it coming,


Jim

 

Actually the front axle OEM suspension set up in as original condition has nearly no sway other than the springs themselves allow (not much at all) since the spring eyes have solid metal bushings not rubber, and the springs are nearly flat. With the 4 bar, the axle will more forwards and aft when it moves up and down. (get even more complex motion when axle moves up and down independent of the opposite end) If using a drag link steering that will result in bump steer. Not trying to argue or dissuade you, just discussing a setup I have no direct knowledge about, so I am trying to understand the ramifications of your design. I am somewhat a student of suspension design from my heavy involvement in national level autocross racing (the AX in my user name) where suspensions and setup is the name of the game.
I know that bags can support a wide range of weight, many 18 wheelers and most buses use air bags, It's just on hot rods they are used to adjust ride height, and adjusting the ride height in the setup I'm understanding from your description, will drastically impact the drag link geometry (you haven't specifically said you are planning a mechanical steering box and drag link steering). What made you decide to go with a 4 link in the front?

 

Acer,


Thanks again for taking the time to take a look at my project. I don't have to remove the springs but they sure are in the way of the 4 bar. Before the final painting etc, I'm planning on removing only the springs and give it a try. I tried to use it without all of the leaves in the springs (rear only ) but it gave it so much wrap that I got rid of that idea, I must admit that I only used the main leaf but it was a newly reconditioned spring. I spent a fair amount of money on the airRids setup and with springs it doesn't really need the bags. I've done so much work up to this point that a little more won't make much difference and it can always be removed and go back to the original springs. As for the steering I'm going to use the original steering box, arms and tie rods. I bought the PU from the original owner in 1962 and it only had a little over 57000 miles at the time. I didn't drive it and it has been in my shop most of that time and I started to work on it in about 2000. When I did drive it the front end is so light that steering wasn't a problem. I have a'55 Chevy Hd Tp and that is the one that needs power steering. Maybe removing half of the leaves in front to softne the load and let the bags take up the slack would be a better idea than a 4 bar for the front, but I'm definetly going to give it a try before it gets scraped.
Thanks again,


Jim