1999 to 2016 Super Duty 1999 to 2016 Ford F250, F350, F450 and F550 Super Duty with diesel V8 and gas V8 and V10 engines
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

5.4 3V expert advice needed to replace phasers vs whole rebuild?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #31  
Old 02-22-2016, 07:31 AM
Tom's Avatar
Tom
Tom is offline
Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Isanti, MN
Posts: 25,426
Received 671 Likes on 440 Posts
Originally Posted by Oldster74
Thanks, I had not gone that far and just assumed it did. Looks like the pan comes off :-{
Did you verify with a gauge? Sending units can fail, and it would be a shame to pull the pan unnecessarily because of a part that costs $15 and 5 minutes to replace.

Low oil pressure is often a sign of worn bearings. I'd do some investigating before changing the oil pump, it may not be worth it. How many miles are on the engine?
 
  #32  
Old 02-22-2016, 01:26 PM
Oldster74's Avatar
Oldster74
Oldster74 is offline
New User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I am going to pull the sender and put gauge on it. I don't have a dry place to work and it's been raining a lot. The best guess is that something is loose and drifting over the oil pick up. Cold, the dash gauge jumps up to normal and suddenly drops to zero in 10-30 seconds. Each time I shut down and restart, it drops sooner and finally does not come up at all. Half hour later it will again come up to normal a few seconds.
 
  #33  
Old 02-22-2016, 01:33 PM
Tom's Avatar
Tom
Tom is offline
Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Isanti, MN
Posts: 25,426
Received 671 Likes on 440 Posts
How many miles are on the engine? What's its history?
 
  #34  
Old 08-08-2016, 05:27 AM
roboink555's Avatar
roboink555
roboink555 is offline
Freshman User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Would you do a timing chain/phaser/oil pump/water pump or do a rebuilt with an engine with 200k on it..? I have a 2006 XLT with just under 200k on it...truck has no rust, can't afford a new one.
 
  #35  
Old 08-08-2016, 11:57 AM
akorcovelos's Avatar
akorcovelos
akorcovelos is offline
Elder User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 710
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
What is making you think you need to open the engine up or replace it? I wouldn't do any of it if I didn't have to, lol.
 
  #36  
Old 08-08-2016, 12:07 PM
roboink555's Avatar
roboink555
roboink555 is offline
Freshman User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm just thinking worst case scenario and down the road...250,000 miles...etc...
 
  #37  
Old 08-08-2016, 12:14 PM
roboink555's Avatar
roboink555
roboink555 is offline
Freshman User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So just went to the garage that I have been going to forever...they put 12v straight to VCT solenoid and that freed the left phaser loose and they took it for a 10 mile drive....ran fine....so we decided to do an engine flush with this stuff called BG engine flush and will add a can of BG to the fresh oil....and see what happens....sounds like sludge or something got in the phaser and locked it up....
 
  #38  
Old 08-08-2016, 12:15 PM
roboink555's Avatar
roboink555
roboink555 is offline
Freshman User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Is there a video showing the cam phasers/oil system during engine running...I would like to see how these components act...?
 
  #39  
Old 08-08-2016, 12:52 PM
roboink555's Avatar
roboink555
roboink555 is offline
Freshman User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Does anyone make a metal chain guide rather than putting the plastic ones back in..?
 
  #40  
Old 08-09-2016, 10:51 AM
akorcovelos's Avatar
akorcovelos
akorcovelos is offline
Elder User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 710
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by roboink555
I'm just thinking worst case scenario and down the road...250,000 miles...etc...
Originally Posted by roboink555
So just went to the garage that I have been going to forever...they put 12v straight to VCT solenoid and that freed the left phaser loose and they took it for a 10 mile drive....ran fine....so we decided to do an engine flush with this stuff called BG engine flush and will add a can of BG to the fresh oil....and see what happens....sounds like sludge or something got in the phaser and locked it up....
So there was something wrong? these statements seem to contradict each other.

I would be cautious running any additive in the oil. The timing tensioners are oil driven and the seals are already prone to leaking. Putting some snake oil in the oil may only make things worse.
 
  #41  
Old 08-09-2016, 01:01 PM
wrvond's Avatar
wrvond
wrvond is offline
Cargo Master
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,745
Received 66 Likes on 46 Posts
Originally Posted by roboink555
I'm just thinking worst case scenario and down the road...250,000 miles...etc...
While there are, of course, exceptions, I don't expect the average engine to exceed 300,000 miles by much. An engine with 200,000 to 250,000 with major mechanical issues would get replaced if it were me.

Originally Posted by roboink555
So just went to the garage that I have been going to forever...they put 12v straight to VCT solenoid and that freed the left phaser loose and they took it for a 10 mile drive....ran fine....so we decided to do an engine flush with this stuff called BG engine flush and will add a can of BG to the fresh oil....and see what happens....sounds like sludge or something got in the phaser and locked it up....
This makes no sense to me. The VCT solenoid is electrically operated to allow oil into the phaser. To apply 12 vdc directly to it would simply open the solenoid fully. These solenoids have screens in them, so it would be unlikely that sludge could get by one. The solenoids aren't particularly difficult to remove. I'd have to pull them and inspect them.

Originally Posted by roboink555
Is there a video showing the cam phasers/oil system during engine running...I would like to see how these components act...?
I'm not aware of a generally available video illustrating how the system operates, but in a nutshell, the oil pump provides pressurized oil to the cam chain tensioners, then to the VCT solenoids, then to the phasers. The phasers have springs in them that hold them at full retard. Increasing oil pressure (from the solenoids) overcomes the spring pressure and advances the cam timing.
Meanwhile, the oil pump is also providing oil to the cylinder heads, lubricating the cams and the followers. Usually if there is a problem with the VCT system due to low oil volume, there is likely to be damage to the valve followers as well. This is why it is recommended to inspect them.

Originally Posted by roboink555
Does anyone make a metal chain guide rather than putting the plastic ones back in..?
In a word - no.
 
  #42  
Old 08-09-2016, 04:30 PM
rowekmr's Avatar
rowekmr
rowekmr is offline
Elder User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 597
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Found this thread after getting a 06 Navigator (125K) with codes and slightly rough sounding engine but runs and drives good. Stealership tested it and said phasers and VCT solenoids are good but that the timing has jumped. From what little I have read I assume the guides are worn and the slack allowed the timing to jump. Truck is sitting in meanwhile and thinking of getting the chains, guides, tensioner, water and oil pump done. I am not used to OHC engines so need to read up on cam followers since I read they can wear and need replacement.
 
  #43  
Old 08-10-2016, 12:16 PM
akorcovelos's Avatar
akorcovelos
akorcovelos is offline
Elder User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 710
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Sounds familiar, bought my 06 Expedition with 80k miles, idled rough but ran great...until it threw the timing chain through the right valve cover. Guides were gone, literally disintegrated. The timing chain had worn grooves into the timing cover there was so much slack. Do it all now, including the phasers, there is no band-aid for whats coming if you keep running it like that and you only want to do it once.
 
  #44  
Old 08-10-2016, 06:16 PM
roboink555's Avatar
roboink555
roboink555 is offline
Freshman User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Come to find out one of the screens on the less than a year old solenoid was torn....they are ford factory ones and come to find out they have a 2 year warranty...good thing I keep my paperwork..so Ford gave me a new one and put the info in the computer. So I have one new one and one that is a year old...Truck runs fine....so how does the screen being torn affect the engine performance....I know it has to do with oil pressure and oil flow...so with the screen torn...is it getting to much non-filtered oil through that area..?
 
  #45  
Old 08-10-2016, 06:19 PM
roboink555's Avatar
roboink555
roboink555 is offline
Freshman User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Another question is what tore the screen in the first place..? Little chunks of plastic..? When I first bought the vehicle, I installed a magnetic oil drain plug...and there was some small metallic pieces on the magnet.
 


Quick Reply: 5.4 3V expert advice needed to replace phasers vs whole rebuild?



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:17 AM.