I have been looking into them a lot. You can buy a lockout set and a tuner for about the same price as new phasers. Seems worth it to me. That's what I will be doing along with a possible cam swap. Might as well do it all while in there.

http://www.freedomracing.com/ford-pa...-kit-7015.html

 

Why go backwards in technology just because of a component failure? Cam phaser problems seem to be less common as time goes on, which makes sense as the technology evolves.

Has anyone done this twice? Is there any reason to believe new parts aren't an updated design?

 

I've done them twice in a handful of trucks. If I'm going in there on my own truck, they are gone.

 

I believe it was suggested earlier, or maybe that was another thread. Anyway, the primary reason for not doing a lockout is that it defeats the purpose of the variable cam timing.
By locking out the variable cam timing you are making your engine management dependent upon a third party tune.
Back in the olden days when vehicles had distributors, a vacuum line to the distributor was utilized to change when the spark plug fired, in order to ensure it fired when the valves were completely closed. With the variable cam timing, we are changing when the valves are closed during the combustion cycle rather than when the spark fires. This is where the dreaded noise comes from. You'll notice it sounds like an exhaust leak, then gets quiet, then comes back as you accelerate. At what engine rpm's the noise appears to go away is dependent in what condition the cam phasers have failed. The default for these particular phasers is full retard, though a broken vane could jam the phaser in some other position.
What is the hazard to driving with the noise? There are a couple. Since the problem is caused by a failure in the oil delivery system, there is the potential for reduced oil delivery to the cams, valve followers, and lash adjusters. This can damage the rollers on the followers (I've seem them ground flat), which will also prevent proper operation after repairing the rest of the system. Additionally, the valve seats will eventually get burned, which means they will not seal properly and result in a loss of compression. How fast will this happen? There is no way of knowing. A lightly driven engine could last many thousands of miles, whereas one used to tow very often at the limits of it's capacities can degrade rather quickly.

There are plenty of people that have had to perform this twice, but only because it wasn't done "right" the first time. There really is no way to shortcut the situation. Plenty of people report completing the repair themselves for $700.00 or even less. I won't say that their repair won't last, because even a blind squirrel gets a nut every now and then. That is to say - if a lightly driven engine develops symptoms and the phasers are replaced early on, it is entirely possible the symptoms may never return.
However, if you understand that the root cause is an underperforming oil pump combined with timing chain tensioners that allow the chains to run without any tension at all until oil pressure builds up, then it is easy to see how likely the problem is to return in the future. Sometimes the very near future.
Additionally, mistakes by the mechanic can require going back in. Things like installing the cam chain guides incorrectly, improper timing alignment, broken connectors, or broken COPs are pretty common. But if you take your time, check everything thoroughly, and don't overlook anything, there is no reason your repair can't be successful.
It is usually a pretty safe assumption that parts are improved during production. However, vehicles do have a service life, and once a particular engine (for example) is no longer in production, money and effort are not going to be spent trying to improve performance or reliability (except perhaps by aftermarket suppliers). In this particular case, the %.2L 3v engine has already been replaced by the 6.2L 2v engine. Now it happens that the 6.2 still uses a variable cam timing scheme, but it no longer uses VCTs to control the oil flow to the phaser. Now these engines use cam-torque actuated variable cam timing. So the "new and improved" or evolved parts used by the 6.2 are not going to provide any benefit to the older 5.4 engine.

 

This is wrong. You are talking about two totally different actions here. Cam timing and ignition timing are not the same, and the phasers that control cam timing do not eliminate ECU controlled ignition timing. Variable cam timing controls how long the valves stay open before, during, and after the ignition event which improves torque across the power curve and reduces emissions. The ECU still changes ignition timing based on coolant temp, throttle position, engine load, and o2 readings.

Locking the phasers puts the cam timing at full retard throughout the entire rev range which on paper will cost power in the upper rev range. The tune that comes with them is just to prevent the ECU from throwing a CEL for cam timing being off.

For some hi performance applications, like forced induction, disabling the VVT makes tuning easier, and since the engine lives in one general RPM range overall drivability isn't a concern. For a daily driven commuter there isn't a reason to use the lockouts IMO. Locking out the phasers isn't going to stop the oil pump from failing, or the tensioners from failing, or the guides from failing, etc.

 

No, it is not wrong. It is incomplete, but it conveys the information necessary to answer the question.
This thread is about correcting a mechanical condition, not about installing turbos, superchargers, aftermarket cams, etc.
You are welcome to lock out your phasers all you want. As you say it's your opinion. I am trying to provide enough information, based on empirical evidence, to help others formulate their own opinion and make their own choices.
I didn't say locking out the phasers would cause anything to fail. I said it would tie you to an aftermarket tune to make the engine run correctly.

 

Yes it helps a lot! One more parts question for you though... any recommendations on manufacture for the chains and the guides or doesn't it matter much?

Thanks again, Jeff

 

Ok I was thinking you need the ford's crankshaft positioning tool and valve compression tool to pop out the followers?

So on removal of the phasers and chains is where I'm not certain of positions of cams and crank. I'v watched a couple YouTube videos of phaser removal. The video talked a specific possition for cams, crank, and 3 followers per side that need to be removed. Unfortunately I couldn't find any info of the complete teardown sequence chains, guides, and phasers.
Maybe the phaser removal procedure is exact same procedure applies to doing the complete timing system???
Thanks and additional info would be greatly appreciated, Jeff

 

I did the complete timing so I can't comment on locking the cams and using the timing wedge to maintain timing when you just do the phasers without pulling the timing cover. IMO just doing the phasers is a band-aid at best. I didn't see many long term success stories in just replacing phasers since the failed phasers is usually a symptom of a larger problem.

I followed several write-ups I found for complete timing replacement and a couple mentioned locking the cams, others did not. The write-up I found with diagrams directly from the Ford service manual did not state to lock anything down when doing complete timing, so I did not. The passenger side phaser moved about 4 teeth when the chain came off, drivers side didn't move at all, but with the crank in the proper position there shouldn't be any valve damage from what I'm seeing. To hold the cams while removing/installing phasers I used a set of vice grips on the cam right behind the phaser while the chains were still on, worked fine.

I also didn't mess with the followers since the cams looked fine, so no experience there.

 

As akorcovelos indicated, just a pair of vice grips locked onto the cam right behind the phaser is all you need.
You can buy special tools, but they cost a lot and you should only need them once! You will need a crank pulley puller, though. It's not overly difficult to pop the followers out with a screwdriver. You can get by without removing the followers, if you set the timing properly and lock the cams down to begin with. IF your engine isn't terribly clattery and seems to be running well, you can probably get by without doing anything to the top end. However, I have seen rollers that were ground down that weren't obvious until they were removed. Only you can decide how deep into it you are going to go.
Parts: Cloves timing chain set - #90391SB (both chains, tensioners, guides and lower sprocket) - I haven't come across an economical way to get the guides and chains without the tensioners. If you are going with the Melling tensioners, the ones in this kit will end up on the shelf, I'm afraid.

 

If you don't have a dampener puller (not a jaw type) you can rent them from AutoZone or similar.

 

I read several places that the cam phaseing can contribute to zero oil pressure. Is that true? My '03 5.4 suddenly lost all pressure and check guage light came on. I can start it cold and have oil pressure for about a half minute (max), then suddenly zero. I will pull sending unit, and test with mechanical guage, but suspect it will only verify the drop to zero issue.

 

I believe it's the other way around. low oil pressure can cause cam phaser problems.

 

Your 03 is 2v so you won't have phasers to worry about.

 

Thanks, I had not gone that far and just assumed it did. Looks like the pan comes off :-{