Hi I just had had to replace my radiator while in town towing a trailer my radiator puked I bought the Aluminum radiator. and topped it off with distilled water to get home I have a 85 6.9 with a coolant filter I have always ran a napa filter with sca's in it I'm going to do a flush today (pull the drain plugs on the block) new filter and new coolant I'm having trouble finding the rotella coolant where I'm at. any suggestions on anther brand besides delo extended life. ( Radiator shop said it eats up the cooling system) I have always ran the rotella before but it's a 100 miles to get it. Thanks for any help.

 

I understand Fleet Charge is a good quality HD coolant, aluminum safe and pre-charged with SCA's.
I've been running it since spring when I got a NAPA(Spectra) aluminum rad and drained the block like you are.

It's a pretty proven coolant and is no longer a NAPA-only deal, I just saw it at O'Reilly Auto also.

 

I'm glad this subject came up because where I live (hillbilly navy town) I could not find anything anywhere with SCA on the label including the 3 local NAPA stores in two towns. I did see diesel truck antifreeze but nothing for SCA's on the label and it said "For Newer Trucks" something like that and as I vaguely recall '2007 and newer' Nothing whatsoever at the other parts stores and I had to explain to them what an anti-cavitation additive does. (even at NAPA). NAPA told me they don't sell 'Fleet Guard' products anymore.

At the NAPA on the other side of town they handed me a 'NAPA' coolant additive, saying 'this is it' but I was skeptical. Reading the label more closely later; there was nothing whatsoever listed on the label for any anti-cavitation additives, SCA's or otherwise, just a 'Radiator Protectant'... I also bought a bottle of 50 WIX test strips (I was desperate!) that were only a few months from expiration (as if I can use 50 in 3 months). So I returned both for a refund. It SEEMS that no one knows what I'm talking about at these parts stores.

If you saw Fleet Charge at O'Reillys, (or Autozone) it's your local franchise owner who is obtaining it for sale because you are on an interstate route with diesel trucks- The national website doesn't list it at all- none of their products, at least not from my location if they are filtering my search results according to my network connection IP number.

FINALLY, I found it online at the NAPA store on the other side of town- must be a very new product for them!! (in the past 2 months) It is the one with SCA PRECHARGED in big white letters on a red banner on the front! Hard to miss that! It's also the least expensive of Fleet Charge and 'Final Charge' antifreeze at $13.99 50/50 mix don't add water.
Their other antifreeze products for trucks don't have SCA on the label.

It's made by 'Old World Products' wouldn't ya know.

FINALLY, One Question: The antifreeze in there now looks very clean, like new. The radiator is very old (28 years) and I am concerned about using a radiator flush in this system as any crud or oxidation that might be adhered to the inside might tend to make it stronger and keep it from leaking.

Is this sort of thinking (probably from old timers experience and logic- which is often quite amazing) but is it viable in this day and age or should I go ahead and flush the system? Not doing so might be the worse of the two options, I don't know.

Fluid looks clean and new (maybe is) but I know nothing about who changed it, what brand or if it has SCAs or any anti-cavitation additives

I don't want to have to buy a new radiator any time soon!

Thanks for any input- I'll be doing this in mid-October-November when I have the extra money. OH YES, AND THANK YOU FOR THE LEAD on Fleet Charge!

 

That totally sucks! I can't believe I'm that blessed to have the only O'Reilly with Fleet Charge...

(Edit:Ok just to see for myself, I looked at O'Reilly auto parts website, and lo and behold, can't find Fleet Charge.
UNTIL I scrolled manually through the pages of coolant-- guess what? Part number is FLEET. No joke!
So go back and search for "fleet" instead of "fleet charge", hopefully it pops up. It did for me, then I switched to a store 45 mins from here and it came up there too.)

As for 50-50, it's easier but I never buy it. I grab the full strength and pay the dollar a gallon for distilled water. Its cheaper and that way I can carry just water in the truck for top-offs and overheating(as a precaution). And worst case I can drink distilled water. : ) Cant drink coolant.

And you're welcome for the tip! I learned it from FTE myself so I'm paying it forward!

 

As for flushing the radiator and being worried about it, either do it with the money for a new rad or don't do it and just buy SCA's in the bottle from NAPA and add them to what you got.

I had a lot of corrosion and a small leak or two before I added vinegar to my coolant having read a bunch about it. It worked well to loosen the crud over time bit still created(or unclogged) multiple other holes. It's much less acidic than the shelf bought flushes so I'd say be ready to pay for a new rad if you're worried about it.
Lots of people flush with no issues, lots have issues. Just depends on your system health.
I added a coolant filter after the flush and the stuff left over clogged 3 filters in short order so rinse the ever-living poo out of your system when you get after it.

 

Haha THIS IS SPOOKY. At each store website I used at least two search terms and THEN just typed in "Antifreeze" and looked at every single one listed and at O'Reilly's it was not there, AND NOW IT IS! The last two listed out of 35. Cannot believe I missed those bright yellow letters 'FLEET' because that's the name I was looking for, for months. They certainly did not have it out on the floor, so if the did have it it was probably in back due to less demand for diesel products. I asked but they didn't even know what I was talking about. I just typed in my zip code and the store closest to me does not have the 50/50 mix but does have the straight fluid which I too always prefer, using distilled water I usually have a leftover mix of a few gallons and always carry some in my vehicles (almost always) So this is good news!!

Super idea to keep the water separate from the antifreeze for me. I have to take pills now and then and so many times I'm driving along and have no water to take a pill. I always forgot to put any drinking water in my vehicles but now I'll do it to add to my antifreeze mix and THEN I will remember to put it there. Other uses come up too- you know.

Yup. I first learned that from a trucker who picked me up while I was hitch-hiking through Arizona when I was 15 on Route 66, The main highway back then. I was on my way to L.A. to "see the world..." He even bought a meal for me at a restaurant. I was very thankful and he said, "Just pass it on" and I never forgot that. I got sun stroke once really bad out there on highway 8 in S. AZ near Calif. border worst time of year for heat and on I-80 in Colorado another time. The first is quite an amazing story and the second one a story which I don't like to think about but this isn't a stories forum.

 

Fleet charge is a Peak product, all Advanced auto's in Denver carry it most O-reileys and some Autozones. The bigger Pep Boys stock it too.

 

When i get the new engine ready to drop in and radiator rebuilt, getting ELC and a filter and not worrying about it.

 

Here is the Peak HD website. It describes Fleet Charge and Final Charge

PEAK Commercial & Industrial | PEAKhd.com

 

Wow I wonder why Final Charge doesn't have a better rep on the forums?!?! It costs about the same and has a MILLION mile change interval! Well one with like 500k and one with 1m. But who cares, at that rate it's easily the cheapest thing out there for the life of the engine.
(Not that is has a bad rep but it seems like it'd be the favorite by a landslide given the maintenance savings and while it doesn't have SCAs per-se, it has something else that does the same thing)

Anyone?

 

Most of the engine coolant topics and 'Read First' info are old to very old (Same with other topics on Fluids- ie: transmission fluid - note that MerconV definitely IS APPROVED and recommended by Ford for our automatic transmissions) and apparently 'Final Charge' is quite a new product. (I've since learned that it's been available for the past 5 years, maybe longer- same formulations, I don't know)

NOTE: The 'Final Charge' video from the Peak website was uploaded March 31, 2015. In the absence of the video the technical data was complicated and uncertain for most people who have been strongly conditioned that SCA's are
essential and required.


'Final Charge' costs about twice as much, at $26+/gallon vs Fleet Charge with SCAs at $13-$16/gallon.

With my technical background I read the technical/scientific data long before seeing the video. Marketing and advertising presentations almost always present big claims about technology/advanced technology etc., with no real data shown to support it. This can be and often is deceptive and very misleading. Americans have been conditioned for nearly a century to open their eyes wide and perk up their ears to that kind of marketing and advertising strategy, it is advanced psychological manipulation and is very very common.

My take on the technical data at that time was this: My first question was: This is a new product (relatively speaking) and the major focus of new products is newer engines, much newer than IDIs. Would this protect these older engines like IDIs as well or better than SCAs? Is there a proven history or track record to show this? Given the data alone I was not convinced and left uncertain. For others not so technically oriented and after SCA's have been so powerfully presented as essential and necessary, I'm sure the uncertainty would be more true.

HOWEVER, after seeing the video presentation (which is exaggerated/to largely exaggerated in some places to simplify the explanations), I am thinking that Final Charge may be the best choice between 'Fleet Charge/SCAs vs 'Final Charge.' A very considerable portion of my thinking is simply because of the convenience factors in using 'Final Charge.'

I've seen similar 'convenience' claims in science and medicine and 'convenience' rarely if ever means more effective. In this case it's likely to provide better protection if only because, using SCA's to maximize protection is too complicated.

Straying from the topic: Anyone can make videos of people in lab coats holding beakers of colorful liquid compounds and draw molecules on a board, impressive but doesn't mean a thing, it's advertising. The rest of a presentation can look like decorating a cartoon Christmas tree of charts and graphs to impress consumers- can also be very misleading. (Rotella Triple Protection oil has a page like that - physical test results in engines are presented to look very impressive, charts look very impressive until one digs into exactly what the charts and graphs meas and then questions arise. Were these independent tests or tests done by the seller of the product? Truly independent research and testing is not slanted by marketing. I went to other sources for information. Finally I did select this oil for superior protection. However, it might tend to leak in an older IDI with lots of miles.
I wanted to use full synthetic oil with special filter but those have lower viscosities, 5W40 or 10W40 and might tend to leak more or use more oil.


In spite of the exaggerations in the 'Final Charge' video I am going to accept their claims on the specific improvements made in the Final Charge product- not to the extreme extent suggest but still Improved. Anti cavitation part of the video looks impressive

The warranty doesn't mean much and essentially would apply to new engines with new cooling systems that were maintained in order for any claim to be considered and wouldn't apply at all to IDI's due to age and miles on these engines.

That is how I see it.

By the way, I hate marketing and advertising because now-days mass deception is the rule, (not the exception). I don't think I have heard or seen one single honest and truthful advertising commercial during the past 10 years or more. They start with a lie and end with a lie and that's what consumers have been conditioned for nearly a century to respond to.

 

As for the cost I didn't search very hard but found a few online sources for final charge at around $20-$22 each and about half that for 50-50 mix.
Straight Fleet charge has always been about $17-$18 locally so that's what I was going on.

I didn't watch the video. I just read the description and details, I didn't exactly get into the chemical data sheet, as I wouldn't know what to look for in the first place.
I'm simply looking for opinions/experiences/thoughts on the product.

I agree totally with your assessment of American advertising, and it pisses me off. I hate lying and the fact that it's totally acceptable as a culture is a total tragedy.

As for the warranty I don't care at all about actually having one. I bought this pickup because of its reputation as a durable diesel engine, low cost to maintain, low initial cost and low cost to rebuild if something did go wrong.
I like this era of Ford's and didn't want ANYTHING to do with the late 90's or 2000's pickups, and can't afford anything more modern.
So having a coolant /designed/ for 1,000,000 miles sounds like a good deal to me, even if it falls short by halfway I probably won't be driving it that long at 10k miles a year.

 

Go to the link posted earlier and watch the video! It's a good one with scary pictures of cavitation, as well as not so scary ones of corrosion and scale. Here is a direct link to their Youtube posting of the video where you can watch the same video full screen: That didn't work as I intended- so just click on the Youtube logo at the bottom right and then go Full Screen.


It began with the science of propaganda and mass manipulation for advertising purposes by Edward Bernays, >'Austrian-American pioneer in the field of public relations and propaganda...< in about 1928. It very quickly became the modus operandi of the government (mass deception) using the same mass media and shortly after synonymous with "psychological warfare" used consistently to overthrow legitimate governments in other parts of the world to facilitate exploitation of resources and control of regional economies and politics. During the 1st G.W. Bush Administration it became officially LEGAL to use this same deception and propaganda on the American People to achieve their agendas (although it was being used long before that) Prior to that time it was technically illegal for the US to use deception and propaganda on the American citizens although it was legal for them to use everywhere outside of the USA. Now, that is about all that we have on the worlds most important issues, such as the making of wars for the reasons mentioned earlier in this paragraph. The same (but worse) is true for WW-i and WW-II and very few people know who conspired and pulled the strings to create those two wars. If people knew the truth they would be shocked, as I was when I learned.

^Too political for a truck forum but it's difficult not to mention this once in awhile.

I often search out technical and scientific stuff just by habit. The majority of the research (over 90% is my guess-ti-mate) is only available to read in technical and scientific journals that require expensive subscriptions which I don't have but most often there are 'abstracts' of the research which are summaries with conclusions and can be found if one wants to search it out. I only do this as a habit that began back when I was obsessed with my education decades ago and during the past 15 yrs reading medical research which I have no reason for doing now. Once in awhile I do it to keep my brain working.

It's not really practical here.

Is the product [very] good? Yes, I believe so. I have to flush my system in October so I am considering if I can afford this one since my truck needs a lot of other money to spend on other things to fix it up and I have a low disability income. I like to do everything the best way so I'll probably do it. I HOPE it helps my radiator last longer. THAT would be a benefit. I may never have a problem with the cooling system, cavitation etc. by staying with an SCA coolant - not sure how many miles I will drive it, but the next owner might have the problems so I've been thinking in those terms.

You have an aluminum radiator now. Is it compatible?? (I don't remember)If you used an acid based compound to flush the system, personally I would flush it again and install all 'Final Charge' otherwise drain maybe half and install it. THERE IS A FAQ section you can read - also mentions mixing with Fleet Charge- that's an option to consider.

Designed for a million miles in an essentially new system but I AGREE, it looks like a very good choice.

 

I've been looking into engine coolants/cavitation protection for 7 months.

I copied the following into my 'Coolants-SCA-DCA' folder from a topic here at FTE- probably in a Powerstroke forum:

'ELC' means 'Extended Life Coolant'. So, things are not always as simple as they might appear.

Ford Motor Company is not one of the listed OEMs at the end of that video.

I'd really like to see an official and qualified statement that 'Final Charge' is perfectly suitable for a Ford IDI diesel and that it should be fine for injector cups which can crack. I hadn't thought of engine coolants, SCA levels etc., related to those cracks but they might be. I don't know the answer to this question yet.

Hardly any of the companies care about trucks that are 22-32 years old

I would tell them, "This is a Science Project for the betterment of mankind, not a junky old truck!"

 

It is easy to make a mistake now and then, sometimes costly, by presuming things without searching out the facts and confirmations. I don't want to make mistakes like that.

Maybe I am being over cautious but I've experienced such errors before. I want this truck to be 100% capable and set up properly for the work I intend for it and have the best protection from these various products.

My original intent was to fully restore it but that is going to be expensive beyond my income at present. Maybe the next owner will finish it out beyond what I do.

From the Peak website:

Research since the year 2000, resulting in the Final Charge product when? 2014-2015? EDIT: Actually it's been around for some years but formulations have probably changed and the recent video could be the result of a change in formulation. Or maybe just a new marketing/advertising video. There is the scary ELC word again! However, we see International trademark listed as an OEM and that is registered trademark of Navistar.

The specific answer to my questions may have to come from Navistar. Or Peak. OR maybe they don't know.