Ok, so I was trying to get uut of a deep gravel bed that I accidentally wandered into in 2wd and buried it trying to power through it. I stopped and put it in 4 hi and tried to reverse, then forward, then reverse and BANG!!! Man it was a loud pop.
I then realized I had lost Reverse, Drive, and 1st gear. It would just make a nasty slipping sound. I still had second gear but knew I needed to have someone pull me out at that point which luckily a nice family came by with a nice lifted blazer and 35's that yanked me out.
Man I am so grateful this guy came along. I was way out on Stewart's point in the middle of know where and this guy shows up. He happen to have a yank strap, shovel and cold water. It was around 105 deg.
So I am going to pull my own transmission and have someone ship me one. I looked at the FORD 4R110 HD and it is around $3800 from the stealership but I am not sure it comes with a torque converter? If I can get a transmission from BTS within a couple weeks I would like to go that route. If anyone has any other suggestions please chime in. Especially Mark, our transmission engineer.

Lee

 

for the giggles of it, put it in 2nd gear get rolling over 10 mph then put it into drive.... bet you still have 2 3 and 4....just no 1st or reverse...

if that's the case let me know what you broke! as i don't have 1st or reverse right now (for a long while actually)

 

Are you certain it wasn't the transfer case that went bang?

 

My suggestion is to pause for a moment and allow others to learn from your adventure,

1. When shifting from forward to reverse and reverse to forward you need to come to a full stop and even a little pause couldn't hurt to allow enough time for the different clutches to release. Live by that rule and you will not blow up your transmission.

2. Airing down your tires to 10 psi takes maybe 15 minutes, driving slowly back to civilation on low tires pressure takes maybe an extra hour. How long does it take to earn the cash topay for the broken junk that could have been avoided by simply airing down tires ?

 

He said it still has second gear, so it can't be the transfer case. The transfer case either works in all gears or doesn't work in all gears.

 

Look at John Wood as well. He might have a quicker turnaround time or have one sitting he can send you. BTS or John Wood are the only way to go IMHO.

 

Well, I missed that. Skimmed over the post too quickly!

 

Are you being serious ? With over 2 million super duties on the road are you seriously claiming only 2 guys are capable of building reliable 4r100 transmissions ?

 

Yep, very serious. I didn't say they were the ONLY two, but if you read closely, I said it was my opinion. They are tried and true, and for the money, why go with anyone else? Look carefully....wait for it.....JUST MY OPINION.

 

Ok, rather then argue over opinions let's focus on tech.


BTS and John each build different propioriety parts, what is each of them doing that other shops are not that makes their builds superior ? And I guess superior is even an opinion, so what mods are they making and what do those mods do that other builders are not doing ?

 

Some info is known, like cryo treating parts, using M300 billet shafts, and machining bigger, deeper grooves to accept stronger, beefier c-clips, etc.

Some they don't share.

Stewart

 

What they don't share is their experience the rest of those parts are available aftermarket. Some shops might still do their own machine work on the coast clutch and intermediate hub but the snap ring issue was solved with better snap rings. Don't get me wrong both shops have a great reputation for building transmissions but they are not magic. And let's be honest, how many street truck guys need or are ordering the $1800 300m intermediate and output shaft option ? 300m shafts are great parts indeed but they are not proprietary, suncoast would be happy to sell you a set. Speaking of 300m , you can get a 300m hub for about $350 that is better suited to machinening a deeper groove if that is what you really want since cutting a deeper groove in the stock cast hub weakens it.

 

"They" (nor anyone else that I can remember) has ever claimed "those parts" aren't available from aftermarket point of sales. You asked a question that didn't seem rhetorical so with my limited memory, I tried to cast a small flashlights worth of light onto the subject.

The following information hasn't been re-confirmed in over a year, but John Wood does his own machine work and Brian at BTS has an outside shop do his.

I don't remember exactly what parts John will machine when he builds his 4R100's

Several ways to skin a cat.

A better snap ring is obviously one choice. Machining a slightly better groove to accomodate a more robust snap ring is another.

Many years ago John used to have custom snap rings made, but that got too expensive so he developed a way to achieve the same results at less of a cost.

Nope. John essentially has said the same thing to me.

"It aint rocket science."

"It's not magic."

"Anything mechanical can and will fail. It's all about all about finding out why something failed and building it better to prolong the failure from occurring."

One of the things I learned from John is anyone can build a trans and put in better parts, but without the experience of build failures (trial and error), and the fixing of those failures to prolong them from repeating, a person isn't necessarily building a better transmission.

I guess that's why some transmission shops (local or well known) are better than others when it comes to rebuilding a trans. They take the time to apply their experience and learned knowledge, and don't just settle for replacing parts.

Guys with waaaaaaaaaay more money than sense!

I never said they were..

If you feel that my previous post implied that, apologies. As previously stated, I was trying to answer (in very basic fashion) your question regarding what they do different than "regular" local shops.


Taking any metal out will weaken the metal, that's only logical. But the minimal amount being precisely removed (millimteres) by his lathe isn't significant enough to warrant upgrading whatever part John is machining.

I'm not speaking FOR John, I'm just trying to pass on what info I've retained from my many conversations on transmissions I've had with him when I've called him for help (or when I was at his shop), whether it was for my trucks or another Ford trans I was working on.

Stewart

 

One thing I will share when rebuilding AOD transmission is that when you get inside then you notice things like pressed in plugs to galley's. Now think about when we up pressures inside the transmission. Yes 99% of your shift kits do that, ramp up line pressure. And all it take is one plug to push out causing failure. This is one of those things I never understood why don't folks take a tap and die out and go to the hardware store and get a few allen plugs, with lock-tite? For most likely $30 you can cover every pressed in plug. It is those small things that add up. Plastic parts, no seals in places ECT. Thats why companies make a living selling upgrade kits. And still do not cover it all. I was reading another Trans thread today on a person who rebuilt his own trans(BadDogKuzz) and did a heck of a job I may add. With his savings he added center support(very logical) I always wondered if roller bearings could be used in places like some AOD/E4OD trans upgrades had. Two fold reasons trans temps from wear/friction and power loss. Think if you could gain .1 of a mile of a gallon of MPG by buying $100 worth of bearings. You easily gain back your money in fuel over time. And the durability of rollers take a lot more load before they wear and loose clearances. I have also thought back to clutch packs. They make all sorts of flavors and sizes. I am starting to think maybe Ford packs are not all that bad and here is why. They have more friction material on them. You look at the specs on the aftermarkets ones they are thinner to get you another pack or more. that means they had to slim down some place right. Guess what you gave up? Steel shim that dissipates heat, and clutch material that is the consumable. I have been slowly stalking these posts for the day when mine gives up. I think most likely I will go with Ford clutch's and aftermarket center support a few logical upgrades and call it a day. The Flux capacitor Cryo shafts are to me just nuts. Unless you have a drag truck. I plan on watching the pyro and pulling a load logically anyways. And when your stuck your stuck. I have pulled out many a Chevy in my days. So I am still + on the score.

 

I would gladly answer, but Stewart answered way better and more in depth than I ever could. I know a little bit from spending time in John's shop and what he was willing to teach me. I didn't ask for secrets, but rather just general knowledge.

BTW, thanks Stewart. I wasn't trying to start a pizzing match, but rather just offer general help.