I have a 2003 F250CC 7.3 with 200,000 miles on it. I just purchased this truck about a month ago. My question is it blows black smoke. A little at idle but mostly when you give it any pedal. I have replaced all of the injector o rings and that didn't make a difference. Then I had it tested and it failed a CCT test on #2 cylinder. I have an injector to put in it, but am curious to find out if 1 bad injector would be enough to make it smoke all the time. I keep getting P1211 ICP pressure above desired. I had a friend of mine who used to work at a ford garage take a look at it with his computer and he said that everything looks good other than the CCT test.


Thanks for the help!


Pat

 

Ignore the CCT test, it's unreliable for diagnostics.


First, you need to let us know more about the truck. Is it stock? Is it modified, specifically is it chipped or tuned?


Next, check up and let us know the overall health of the truck. Do you have exhaust leaks, particularly around the up-pipe collector? Is the turbo ok? Are you using oil? What's your fuel economy like?


There's tons of reasons why your truck could be smoking, but knowing a bit more about it can help us narrow down a few things before you start throwing a bucket of parts at it hoping for the best.


Just my 2 cents. And welcome to FTE!

 

The truck does have an Edge programmer but it is set to stock. Turbo is good. Burns very little oil. By very little I mean 1 quart every 2,500 - 3000 miles. No exhaust leaks that I know of. When I did the O-rings I cleaned all of the turbo boots and pipes to make sure they were sealing up. it is showing 20 PSI boost. I get 17-18 MPG with the truck. I also pulled the PCM to make sure there was no chip there and there isn't.

 

Hi pcarr, welcome to FTE!

I'm going to move this one down to the 7.3L forum, you should get some good advice down there.

 

Black smoke at idle? That sounds like a bleeding injector. Couple that with the P1211, and all kinds of questions come to mind.

• How long ago (in miles) did you replace the O-rings?
• Did black smoke at idle cause you to do the injector O-rings, or did the black smoke come after?
• What was the torque on the injector bolt... with an inch/lb wrench?
• Did you hot-torque the injectors?
• Have you heard of a "Cody Test"?
• Have you checked the Cylinder Rotational Velocity on all 8 cylinders?

 

I replaced the o rings about 1500 miles ago. The black smoke all the time lead me to believe that it was an o ring. All the o rings appeared good when I replaced them. I torqued them to 120 in/pounds and then I let it run for 15 minutes and did them again. It was after I replaced the o rings that I had the cct test run and it failed on #2.

I have never heard of a Cody test. I will look into that today.

I have not done a cylinder rotational velocity. I have no way of doing one without going to the dealer.

Thanks for all the help. I appreciate it!

 

Ah... really ignore that #2 on the CCT, assuming you did that shortly after re-installing the injectors. #1 and #2 almost always fail a CCT before all the air has worked out of the oil. If you have the valve covers off and watch the oil spouts on top of the injectors (after messing with injectors), you'll actually see #1 and/or #2 fail to fire. The air collects at the highest point in the oil rail, and that's usually at #1 and #2. Once you've cleared the air by way of a good run of about 50 miles, the CCT results and PERDELs are usually very different.

I use AutoEnginuity software on my "carputer" to do all of my engine testing. It's about the price of three visits to the stealership to get an engine scan. I've probably gotten about $20,000 worth of engine scans and other hookup info from my AE, and far more value out of monitoring/logging the sensors in the truck on a daily basis with Torque Pro.

Running at idle is before the turbo is needed to clear the air, so it shouldn't soot up unless one or more injectors are delivering too much fuel or have bad nozzles. It's possible your air filter is choked, and this may cause a sooty idle. A completely blown turbo might do this too, so looking at the turbo wheel and testing spin/play is in order.

 

I ran the cct test shortly (100 miles) after and again the other day and am getting the same thing. I am planning on ordering AE in the very near future.

It has a stock intake with a new air filter. I will pull the tubes this weekend and check the turbo.

I'll report back once I get into it and let you know.

 

One other thing to check, now that I think about it: Make sure the EBPV valve is open. Once you have a way to read the OBDII sensors, you might have a look at that EBP reading.

 

Thanks again for all the info Tugly. I will order AE soon and get back to you on the numbers.

 

So, I have been driving the truck and all of the symptoms are still there. It is still blowing black smoke when I get on it hard. It still smokes at idle. I have now found out that the truck does have 4" exhaust and the cat is gone.

So, that brings us to today. I received a nice little box with a bunch of goodies from Riffraff. I installed AE and ran right out to the truck. I forgot to set some of the max limits so they are a little high. I can rerun the data tomorrow if it helps.

I have attached 2 files. 1 is the KOEO, and the other is a 0-70mph run. Do these numbers make sense?

Thank you,

Pat

 

That IPR/ICP combination looks a little weird. Your HPOP looks to be OK, but I'm not sure I trust your ICP sensor. The EBP and MAP look in line with a stock tune, albeit EBP at the upper limits of normal at WOT and boost at the lower limits. Is your air filter clean?

I am curious what would happen if you unplug the ICP sensor, clean it out with electric contact cleaner, reconnect it, and try another run. The idle information with a warm engine is very helpful, so include that like you did the last two data sets.

After getting the engine to full temp, have you tried Cylinder Rotational Velocity on all 8 cylinders (MAX 10 - A/C off - some time idling in gear and out)?

 

First and foremost pull the programmer. This is usually the issue with over fueling on stock injectors, however smoke at idle is a bit weird to be seeing black. I'm curious if this does not solve it outright. Secondly I'd refer to your MAP sensor, but from what I have seen below i do not think its the issue. Edge programmers are famous for toasting PCMs. I may have read this wrong and confused myself.

Pocket brings up all excellent points! From what you said that's all very reasonable especially for a truck with those miles

I personally think your boost and back pressure look absolutely fine, you are hitting near 19psi gauge on a stock truck. I also doubt you have an exhaust leak pre turbo with those back pressure numbers.

Agreed on the ICP you have 36% DC around 3100 rpm at 2800psi, and then shortly later require 46% to do the same. I would not look too far into this yet, but maybe your oil warmed up real quick :-)

Did you inspect your injector tips when you had them out. I'd assume these are the factory injectors?

Running a straight 4" exhaust will do absolutely nothing for smoke. You said your filter was clean, as that typically the first thing to question with excess black smoke.

Regarding hot torquing of injector hold down bolts. I have never done this in over a hundred injector installs. Not saying one way is right or wrong, but I push to replace the bolts to most people as it very cheap to do so during the job, but in most cases its not needed. If you are yielding the threads at 120 in/lbs then your torque wrench is garbage or someone has previously effed up the bolt.

The biggest mistakes for bolts loosening up are not having clean cups and hydraulically loading the injector with residue oil/diesel and there fore yielding an improper torque, residue carbon in a cup, dirty bolt threads, and the most common is using a garbage wrench to torque with. Buy a proper wrench to do the job. if you are using a 80$ wrench with a wide operating range 10-100ft/lbs, its likely inaccurate. I use a 500$ wrench on internal small shank fasteners. Is that reqd, heck no but when you do enough internal motor work its sure as heck is.

Hope it turns out to be something simple, it usually is, we tend to overthink the crap out of these trucks :-) Let us know what you find.

 

Thanks for looking at this guys. I have no way of knowing weather the injectors are stock or not. I forgot to mention that I did replace the #2 injector with a known stock injector. It took care of the CCT issue.


This morning I ran PERDELS. I attached them. I didn't the max at 10 as I hadn't seen these posts yet.


The truck is gone at the moment to go get the kids so when it comes back home ill run out and do another run.


I have waiting for this weekends project a FRX and a HPX as well the stuff to do the Huth/Harpoon mod. Do I go ahead and do them or try and figure out why it smokes?

 

Maybe I missed it, but I saw a max 17 PSI boost with 27 PSI EBP. I'll look again at home.

Those PERDELs look bang-on with a purple or blue CPS - nothing to see here.

We need stock readings now to see what the truck is doing, not the tune.