Been thinking about MS alot lately, especially with lack of intake heat on a 300 and E85. There's arguments for both ways, but carbs are so easy for me to make reliable power. On the carbed turbo 3.8 tbird, we have a lean cylinder that efi would easily fix. Added a 2gph meth nozzle to that cylinder and all is good, but still dependent on that meth pump.

I believe E85 and efi really bridge the gap vs Carb and gas. But E85 and carb with a turbo are the bomb!...of course pros and cons both ways. I would like to have both, efi for drive ability and a carb for reliability and power, but would still have to keep up with the weather...

I feel safe so far on my combo that if something goes lean with E85 and carb, it will break up and be ok. Every combo is different, does the same hold true with efi? The thing that worries me is with a carb it's "generally" all cylinders that are effected so the issue will show up quickly, and shut down. But with efi, it could be one cylinder and the rest will carry the engine until disaster???

What have you found with individual cylinder issues with boost, efi and E85? Does it break up/miss or result in damage?

No matter what, boost=risk...

 

We ran megasquirt on a lot of setups, with batch fire, and sequential spark. It's not that bad. Typically, unless you had an injector stick, every cylinder gets the same, and exact amount of fuel each time. With a carb, you rely on fuel to stay suspended, as well as travel through the intake equally. I'm sure if you had an o2 sensor on each cylinder, or a pyro on every cyl, you'll notice the difference.
We ran e85 in Colorado, on a dsm, that we thought ran well. We typically ran 28 psi on 91 octane gas. We upped the timing and boost on e85, and ended up running 35-38 psi safely on ethanol. We ran a snowmobile with ssd and e85, and another sled with a turbo and e85 with megasquirt. It was real fun.
I have about 14 vehicles with ms, and none of them blew up because of the efi, only improper tuning. I am very confidant in the ability of efi. There are plenty of vehicles on the road with efi, and lots of boost, without issues. I've risked many expensive engines with megasquirt, and they are all still running great. You start out low boost, and learn to tune it. Then go up from there and keep it tuned. That's the funnest part.
I've wanted to do a turbo 300-6 for a very long time. I just don't own one. I've been tempted to do a rear mount turbo on my 90 351, but I have all the stuff for a blower. We will see.

 

Great to hear. I've had efi Supercoupes and Turbocoupes and really never had many issues with the efi, but some.

I think most of my dislike for efi is dealing with all the oem stuff that comes in with haunting issues. However, I know most people running MS really love it, and once a guy learns MS and installs it his way, can be comfortable. Of course the price of parts vs a carb setup is a consideration.

I tune carbs the same way, start with low boost keeping everything in check on the way up. Agreed, tuning and getting it right is very rewarding.

Can you send some links etc. on a MS system that you feel would fit the bill? I have been considering it for while, especially with customers wanting efi. Now that I'm getting close to finished with the F-100 as far as camshaft, turbo, coverter, I may invest...

 

Well, as you see with the carb, temp plays a big part in air/fuel ratio. While it will have some effect on ms, it will compensate pretty well with the temp fluctuation.
I buy all my stuff from diyautotune.com. He seems to have always had what I needed. I've used them for probably 12-14 years, since they started selling ms1 v2. I remember when ms was just fuel.
I still like ms1 v3, but ms2 v3 is nice. Has more features, and support has grown significantly and is about the same as ms1. Now there's the next gen as well. It's getting pretty impressive.

As far as cost, it's a tossup. You can do carb pretty cheap, but stock carbs dont have the best adjustments throughout the rpm range usually. Blow through carbs are not cheap from what I've dealt with. Megasquirt can be done from 300-400. I prefer gm sensors. You can get elaborate and more costly, but you can do it on a budget. For you running e85, I'd start with 60lb injectors. Maybe bigger if you primarily use e85. That should be 600hp for you.

 

I will check out diy...was there many years ago, glad to see they are still going strong. You are right, I haven't been keeping up on efi and prices and availability for injectors and such are decent. Of course you have welding in injector bungs, fuel rail if oem intake is not used...

MS V3 looks pricey at this point, as do carb shop carbs. All the bling bling isn't always necessary. Straight leg boosters and stock metering blocks(gas) do great. I have developed a system where the carb can be rebuilt to stock(including power valve) save for solid floats and 1 modified circuit, keeping the cost down. I can get it dialed in fast and predict tweeks from experience.(but yes it's still a carb) I'm sure you could whip a tune on MS super quick and be strolling...it's all what we are comfortable with and know.

Thanks for the info, I will look into it. As tuners, precision is definitely appealing.

 

Megasquirt is $220 for ms1 v3 and $280 for ms2 v3. Wire harness is $80 for premade but I think it's cheaper if you just buy the prelabled wire only. Then either buy the pigtails from DIY, or go to junkyard and get them.
I bought the stimulator and other junk. I'd post on forum to see if you can borrow one to build the ms unit.

 

Sounds good. Looks like a good winter project since I won't driving it then.. Planned on pulling the engine anyway and could also sell the carb if the efi works out too.

 

Where do you live. You didn't put a location when you signed up.

 

Central Wisconsin, fixed...

 

Too darn far away for me to come help you. Sorry.

But keep my email for questions if you'd like.

UNTAMND@gmail.com

 

Sounds good, thank you.

 

i was on that megasquiter website for over a hour and still have no idea what im looking at or what i would even need to order to convert anything to efi.... i could have rebuilt and installed a carb in that time and drove off into the sunset.

i wouldnt mind trying it, but probably would need a person that used it before to even know where to begin.

 

I have a complete grasp on efi and it will still be a curve as far as throttle body details, playing with maps etc... I really want to learn MS, not sure if my truck will be the first victim. Don't like the idea of injectors being so close the exhaust mani on a 300 even with a heat shield. Plus the truck seems to run ok now lol!

The biggest thing for me is I want to run E85 and not have to change jets all the time with the carb, but I have some solutions figured out already...

 

If I remember correctly, MS and VEMS (VEMS is what I'm using on my 300), you can use a GM Fuel Composition sensor (FlexFuel Sensor). Then the computer can adjust the correct fueling for a given mixture and you can mix e85 ***** nilly in your gas.

I know VEMS has an exhaust temp probe, I assume MS can too so you can monitor it and dump fuel in to cool things off when needed.

And, yeah those injectors are close to the exhaust manifolds, and I believe Ford's solution was to run a higher fuel regulator pressure and lower flow injectors. I suppose if it's a problem, use some header wrap to keep heat in?

 

Ever see the fan set up and plumbing for injector cooling on some stock 300s? Kinda cute.

The mani would be very difficult to wrap especially where needed due to abrupt 90* off the head. Will likely triple coat it this winter as I did with the rest of the exhaust...not interested in headers with a turbo.

Already their's a bunch of details with the efi. The truck is set up and runs well, I will leave it carbed. If I was starting from scratch I would consider it.

I have always made more power and better mpg with a carb when tuned than efi. Oh, here I go...Anyways, sticking with a carb is better for me at this time. If I go efi on a new project, I will definitely reach out...
Thanks guys!