Reason for the e fans?
#1
07-27-2015, 01:38 AM
#2
07-27-2015, 05:33 AM
Yeah, less of a load on the engine in theory. Not sure how they compare in real life. The mechanical fan takes some horsepower to turn but an e-fan just puts the load on the engine via the alternator. Might be more efficient so as to use less energy, not sure, never compared. Now if a variable speed DC motor drive is used then I can see the efficiency gains, but I don't see anyone using a drive like that.
Also with an e-fan you can pick your temperature that it cuts in at, the mechanical fan will do it wherever the clutch is designed to but an electric fan you can pick your temperature or just override it manually.
Also with an e-fan you can pick your temperature that it cuts in at, the mechanical fan will do it wherever the clutch is designed to but an electric fan you can pick your temperature or just override it manually.
#3
07-27-2015, 08:07 AM
Hotshot
#4
07-27-2015, 09:49 AM
I'll list it for me.
1) Greater control. I can keep my engine right at 200* or just under on a 195* thermostat and bring it to operational temp quicker.
2) Elimination of rotational mass on the water pump, its bearings.
3) Drag on the crank. Even with a perfectly functioning thermostatic clutch, drag exists on the engine while it swings the fan & its mass through the resisting air. If there was no drag, the fan would be still save for motion of vehicle through the air.
Do you know anyone who has the strength of their convictions to prove the efficiency of a mechanical fan clutch by stopping it from spinning?
And please. Before the drag created by generation of current needed to run the fan comes up... I agree.
4) But I can turn my fan off. In fact, from Oct, Nov till Spring (whenever it comes here) I use my fans very little if NOT at all.
5) If I need to work on the front of my engine, I can pull my fan assembly out in under TWO MINUETS if I really drag it out. Anywhere. Beats Hell out of mechanicals hands down.
6) When I eliminated both my air pump & mech fan at the same time, I experienced a much more rev-able, quicker to respond to the throttle engine. Particularly off the line.
7) Its much better sounding (quieter) under the hood and easier to diagnose other issues.
That's why I personally run an electric. Others may have different results. Your results may vary.
1) Greater control. I can keep my engine right at 200* or just under on a 195* thermostat and bring it to operational temp quicker.
2) Elimination of rotational mass on the water pump, its bearings.
3) Drag on the crank. Even with a perfectly functioning thermostatic clutch, drag exists on the engine while it swings the fan & its mass through the resisting air. If there was no drag, the fan would be still save for motion of vehicle through the air.
Do you know anyone who has the strength of their convictions to prove the efficiency of a mechanical fan clutch by stopping it from spinning?
And please. Before the drag created by generation of current needed to run the fan comes up... I agree.
4) But I can turn my fan off. In fact, from Oct, Nov till Spring (whenever it comes here) I use my fans very little if NOT at all.
5) If I need to work on the front of my engine, I can pull my fan assembly out in under TWO MINUETS if I really drag it out. Anywhere. Beats Hell out of mechanicals hands down.
6) When I eliminated both my air pump & mech fan at the same time, I experienced a much more rev-able, quicker to respond to the throttle engine. Particularly off the line.
7) Its much better sounding (quieter) under the hood and easier to diagnose other issues.
That's why I personally run an electric. Others may have different results. Your results may vary.
#5
07-27-2015, 04:18 PM
#6
07-27-2015, 04:22 PM
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Mine isn't even on yet but my reasons are the same as above. Most people say it rarely even kicks on. Plus I don't know if it's just normal or not but my clutch fan roars like a jet when I accelerate hard. Ruins the sound of the exhaust almost. I have also read you pick up like 10hp on avg (read in Hot Rod Magazine one time I think). I doubt on a 200hp motor you would get that much but gas mileage supposily goes up too.
#7
07-27-2015, 04:27 PM
I'll list it for me.
1) Greater control. I can keep my engine right at 200* or just under on a 195* thermostat and bring it to operational temp quicker.
2) Elimination of rotational mass on the water pump, its bearings.
3) Drag on the crank. Even with a perfectly functioning thermostatic clutch, drag exists on the engine while it swings the fan & its mass through the resisting air. If there was no drag, the fan would be still save for motion of vehicle through the air.
Do you know anyone who has the strength of their convictions to prove the efficiency of a mechanical fan clutch by stopping it from spinning?
And please. Before the drag created by generation of current needed to run the fan comes up... I agree.
4) But I can turn my fan off. In fact, from Oct, Nov till Spring (whenever it comes here) I use my fans very little if NOT at all.
5) If I need to work on the front of my engine, I can pull my fan assembly out in under TWO MINUETS if I really drag it out. Anywhere. Beats Hell out of mechanicals hands down.
6) When I eliminated both my air pump & mech fan at the same time, I experienced a much more rev-able, quicker to respond to the throttle engine. Particularly off the line.
7) Its much better sounding (quieter) under the hood and easier to diagnose other issues.
That's why I personally run an electric. Others my have different results. Your results may vary.
1) Greater control. I can keep my engine right at 200* or just under on a 195* thermostat and bring it to operational temp quicker.
2) Elimination of rotational mass on the water pump, its bearings.
3) Drag on the crank. Even with a perfectly functioning thermostatic clutch, drag exists on the engine while it swings the fan & its mass through the resisting air. If there was no drag, the fan would be still save for motion of vehicle through the air.
Do you know anyone who has the strength of their convictions to prove the efficiency of a mechanical fan clutch by stopping it from spinning?
And please. Before the drag created by generation of current needed to run the fan comes up... I agree.
4) But I can turn my fan off. In fact, from Oct, Nov till Spring (whenever it comes here) I use my fans very little if NOT at all.
5) If I need to work on the front of my engine, I can pull my fan assembly out in under TWO MINUETS if I really drag it out. Anywhere. Beats Hell out of mechanicals hands down.
6) When I eliminated both my air pump & mech fan at the same time, I experienced a much more rev-able, quicker to respond to the throttle engine. Particularly off the line.
7) Its much better sounding (quieter) under the hood and easier to diagnose other issues.
That's why I personally run an electric. Others my have different results. Your results may vary.
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#10
07-27-2015, 07:25 PM
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secondly,why consider swapping to electric cooling fans?
1.safety/ease of working around running engine (examples; timing engine,diagnosing sounds,priming fuel.)
2.free up hp.who wants to feel a power loss and slow down even more while towing uphill because your engine fan kicks on? let's face it,everyone wants the majority of their power to remain at the back wheels at all times.especially when you need it the most.
the idi isn't a powerful diesel engine as far as hp goes by modern standards.they can be built to impressive levels.however this requires thousands of dollars,engine removal,tear down and or possibly complete overhaul (depending on what your after.)
as worthwhile as this may be,not everyone has the funds,time nor desire to completely remove and start tearing into their engines.there are small gains to be had in other places.this is one of them.
some idi owners with years of driving these rigs under their belt,have estimated 20+ hp loss when the mechanical fans engages.this may not sound like much,but it's a pretty good chunk when only talking about a 180-190 hp engine (at the wheels) with a typical aftermarket turbo kit.just 120-130 hp with an n/a engine.
we also have a dyno report:
3.efficiency/economy.electric fans are much more efficient.generate some their own power while running and require no power at all when off (which is most of the time) unlike a fan just spinning in free mode.it all adds up.
4.stock fan clutches are expensive and failure prone.replacements these days seem to be even worse.high end clutches built to last and work much more efficiently can set you back for more than a typically good used idi engine,making them an impractical option for most idi owners.
5.a fairly common event over the years,has been reports of idi engines tossing their fans through radiators.these are not cheap.while some may claim its due to improper installs etc.it's also happened at various random times upon engine shut down,not just after fan clutch replacements.
6.far better cooling at idle.this means colder a/c in the summer.cooler engine while plowing snow and other slow driving, or idle off road work and play duties.
7.quieter engine.it's well known the stock fan really roars when engaged.i hear nothing,and in fact had to install indicator lights to know when they're working.
8.reduced stress on water pump bearing.
9.off roading driving in deep water.you can turn the fans off (best research how the motors seem to hold up after being submerged in water though lol.)
10.faster warmup.though we have a t-stat,so it's not a major issue.when starting your engine with a mechanical,it blows cold air over the engine and trans.this means not as good for emissions either (though this is not a commonly known concern in this section of the forum lol) and economy gains there too,though unmeasurable in this regard im sure,but hey,it's there.adds up over ownership.
11.fully adjustable air flow at a temp you prefer with a variable rate/adjustable controller.you can tune it for your driving style.or full on pre-hill to keep her from even getting hot for that monster grade coming up.
12.reduce head gasket failure.e-fans used in conjunction with a variable rate fan controller that slowly ramps up the airflow,will slowly bring the temps down and keep them manageable in the first place.when the mechanical engages,it can often be latter than you would like,and then it's just full boar all at once.this drastic quick change in engine temps can warp heads and isn't any good on head gaskets.
13.ease of replacement.
should one of the electric motors fail,replacement is extremely easy,and might take 5 minutes total.
14.cost of replacement.
should one of the electric motors fail,replacement electric motors,even new cost around $40 (ford 95-98 windstar example.at time of this post and price check on ebay.)
15.quick extra cooling for auto trans aux cooler.with an override switch,you can turn the fans on to help pass air through your aux trans cooler.when driving below torque convert lockup speeds,this can be very helpful.iv done this when plowing snow even if the engine temps are fine,the trans temps can creep up quick.
why not consider swapping to electric cooling fans?
it requires time,money and a little effort to do it correctly.if you lack any of these,it's best to skip this mod,otherwise you will fail.
1.safety/ease of working around running engine (examples; timing engine,diagnosing sounds,priming fuel.)
2.free up hp.who wants to feel a power loss and slow down even more while towing uphill because your engine fan kicks on? let's face it,everyone wants the majority of their power to remain at the back wheels at all times.especially when you need it the most.
the idi isn't a powerful diesel engine as far as hp goes by modern standards.they can be built to impressive levels.however this requires thousands of dollars,engine removal,tear down and or possibly complete overhaul (depending on what your after.)
as worthwhile as this may be,not everyone has the funds,time nor desire to completely remove and start tearing into their engines.there are small gains to be had in other places.this is one of them.
some idi owners with years of driving these rigs under their belt,have estimated 20+ hp loss when the mechanical fans engages.this may not sound like much,but it's a pretty good chunk when only talking about a 180-190 hp engine (at the wheels) with a typical aftermarket turbo kit.just 120-130 hp with an n/a engine.
we also have a dyno report:
3.efficiency/economy.electric fans are much more efficient.generate some their own power while running and require no power at all when off (which is most of the time) unlike a fan just spinning in free mode.it all adds up.
4.stock fan clutches are expensive and failure prone.replacements these days seem to be even worse.high end clutches built to last and work much more efficiently can set you back for more than a typically good used idi engine,making them an impractical option for most idi owners.
5.a fairly common event over the years,has been reports of idi engines tossing their fans through radiators.these are not cheap.while some may claim its due to improper installs etc.it's also happened at various random times upon engine shut down,not just after fan clutch replacements.
6.far better cooling at idle.this means colder a/c in the summer.cooler engine while plowing snow and other slow driving, or idle off road work and play duties.
7.quieter engine.it's well known the stock fan really roars when engaged.i hear nothing,and in fact had to install indicator lights to know when they're working.
8.reduced stress on water pump bearing.
9.off roading driving in deep water.you can turn the fans off (best research how the motors seem to hold up after being submerged in water though lol.)
10.faster warmup.though we have a t-stat,so it's not a major issue.when starting your engine with a mechanical,it blows cold air over the engine and trans.this means not as good for emissions either (though this is not a commonly known concern in this section of the forum lol) and economy gains there too,though unmeasurable in this regard im sure,but hey,it's there.adds up over ownership.
11.fully adjustable air flow at a temp you prefer with a variable rate/adjustable controller.you can tune it for your driving style.or full on pre-hill to keep her from even getting hot for that monster grade coming up.
12.reduce head gasket failure.e-fans used in conjunction with a variable rate fan controller that slowly ramps up the airflow,will slowly bring the temps down and keep them manageable in the first place.when the mechanical engages,it can often be latter than you would like,and then it's just full boar all at once.this drastic quick change in engine temps can warp heads and isn't any good on head gaskets.
13.ease of replacement.
should one of the electric motors fail,replacement is extremely easy,and might take 5 minutes total.
14.cost of replacement.
should one of the electric motors fail,replacement electric motors,even new cost around $40 (ford 95-98 windstar example.at time of this post and price check on ebay.)
15.quick extra cooling for auto trans aux cooler.with an override switch,you can turn the fans on to help pass air through your aux trans cooler.when driving below torque convert lockup speeds,this can be very helpful.iv done this when plowing snow even if the engine temps are fine,the trans temps can creep up quick.
why not consider swapping to electric cooling fans?
it requires time,money and a little effort to do it correctly.if you lack any of these,it's best to skip this mod,otherwise you will fail.
#12
07-27-2015, 10:21 PM
Really getting in the weeds in one of the Classic forums:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...oling-fan.html
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...oling-fan.html
#13
07-27-2015, 10:23 PM
The last vehicle I swapped to an electric fan I gained an immediate 3mpg city. Without changing anything else. And the fan clutch was functioning correctly prior to removing it. It made a HUGE difference.
I ultimately went back to a mechanical fan after a series of malfunctions, failures, and unfortunate mishaps had me questioning if I was willing to destroy a rather expensive engine over a few MPG gained..
I ultimately went back to a mechanical fan after a series of malfunctions, failures, and unfortunate mishaps had me questioning if I was willing to destroy a rather expensive engine over a few MPG gained..
#15
07-28-2015, 09:22 AM
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Getting off subject here but you talking about the oil cooler above the oil filter? If so I didn't have to do the delete but I thought I was going to until I looked at my truck so I researched it a little. I believe all u have to do is remove the oil filter. Then remove the cooler with a 10 mm hex wrench I think. Then u use a FL1A filter and a regular lower coolant hose. And I hear ya on too many projects. Gotta keep these old girls running strong though!