Chewing Up Belts/Water Pump Pulley Out Of Alignment - Help?
#16
I think he is on the right track, but use a pulley remover and pull it out a little instead of pressing it in farther. My belt does the same thing, and I think that is the issue with mine....I think it is anyway. Just haven't done anything with it yet. But, just like yours, it will chew the last rib toward the block up, then it is fine. I'm gonna try pulling the power steering pulley out just a little before I do anything.
T_F_E and ReBild put me on the right track - pulling the pulley *out* about 1/8" to 3/16" allowed everything to *just* be within tolerances and the belt stopped rubbing. Time will tell if there's any other sign of accelerated wear but I *think* the deliberate misalignment is within a serpentine drive's allowable deflection. This has to be the first time ever that the stupid pressed-on pulley idea worked to someone's advantage.
I have never had this issue myself, but if I had to guess i would assume the water pump tolerance is out of whack. 9 times out of 10 the water pump as been replaced on that truck. If so the replacement may be a cheaply made one.
I am a prior machinist, and I have seen a lot of companies hire right off the street. Give these guys a couple weeks to train with one of there other guys (who was probably off the street when they started) before assigning a machine. I will not name any company, but particularly I was offered a job at a company making rifles. They wanted me to teach their guys how to teach the tooling to the CNC machines, write programs, and fix glitches in programs as they came up.
It would not surprise me in the least if automotive industries are doing the same. The quality control often misses little things like this.
I am a prior machinist, and I have seen a lot of companies hire right off the street. Give these guys a couple weeks to train with one of there other guys (who was probably off the street when they started) before assigning a machine. I will not name any company, but particularly I was offered a job at a company making rifles. They wanted me to teach their guys how to teach the tooling to the CNC machines, write programs, and fix glitches in programs as they came up.
It would not surprise me in the least if automotive industries are doing the same. The quality control often misses little things like this.
Water Pump Part Numbers:
94.5: 45007
95: 45007
96: 45000
97: 45000
Every other major aftermarket parts maker I could find had a similar situation; GMB, Bosch, Cardone, even Motorcraft! They don't even list a half-year breakover.
I think we found our problem. People are buying the pumps called out in the catalog for the 1995 and getting the pump intended for the 7 rib belt drive trucks. Only thing is, if they have a late 95 with the 8 rib belt, the spacing's wrong and it chews up the belt with no outward sign of this being the problem.
Proposed moral of story: If you have an 8 rib 1995, order the pump for a 1996 or you will get the wrong pump and have the same puzzle I did.
Maybe we should put this in the stickied tech post?
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#17
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#18
There's a reason that only the Big Three ever used this design. Unless they were using a US power steering pump, just about nobody else in the post war era ever did. None of the Europeans, none of the Japanese. They used bolt-on pulleys, which are much easier to service and easier to precisely shim into alignment.
#19
1997 f250, 360k miles on original waterpump.
Had a belt rubbing on the inside of the water pump pulley on a new water pump and power steering pump install. Was focusing on the water pump being the problem till a found this thread.
Pulled power steering pulley out about 1/16 inch, perfectly in line now. The power steering pump shaft does have some in and out travel, It must of been near it's limit and was not allowing it to float enough. Thanks for the tips.
Be carefull now to check the vacuum pump pulley alinement. A straight edge starting from the Harmonic balance can solve a lot of problems.
Bob
Had a belt rubbing on the inside of the water pump pulley on a new water pump and power steering pump install. Was focusing on the water pump being the problem till a found this thread.
Pulled power steering pulley out about 1/16 inch, perfectly in line now. The power steering pump shaft does have some in and out travel, It must of been near it's limit and was not allowing it to float enough. Thanks for the tips.
Be carefull now to check the vacuum pump pulley alinement. A straight edge starting from the Harmonic balance can solve a lot of problems.
Bob
#20
#21
I have never had this issue myself, but if I had to guess i would assume the water pump tolerance is out of whack. 9 times out of 10 the water pump as been replaced on that truck. If so the replacement may be a cheaply made one.
I am a prior machinist, and I have seen a lot of companies hire right off the street. Give these guys a couple weeks to train with one of there other guys (who was probably off the street when they started) before assigning a machine. I will not name any company, but particularly I was offered a job at a company making rifles. They wanted me to teach their guys how to teach the tooling to the CNC machines, write programs, and fix glitches in programs as they came up.
It would not surprise me in the least if automotive industries are doing the same. The quality control often misses little things like this.
I am a prior machinist, and I have seen a lot of companies hire right off the street. Give these guys a couple weeks to train with one of there other guys (who was probably off the street when they started) before assigning a machine. I will not name any company, but particularly I was offered a job at a company making rifles. They wanted me to teach their guys how to teach the tooling to the CNC machines, write programs, and fix glitches in programs as they came up.
It would not surprise me in the least if automotive industries are doing the same. The quality control often misses little things like this.
#23
My truck has had this problem since I got it a couple of years ago but now it's really pissing me off. I've checked the archives and not found a definitive answer. It *quickly* chews off the last rib on the serpentine belt, the one closest to the block. However, after that it would run indefinitely on the remaining 7 ribs.
The FEAD belt on the front of the engine is supposed to be an 8 rib model on my truck by production date. Most of the engine driven accessories on the truck when I got it were 8 rib except the pulley on the alternator, which I quickly replaced. That didn't solve the problem but I couldn't see anything else that could cause it so I had to leave it alone.
Over the course of the last couple years, I replaced the alternator, idler pulley, a/c compressor and I did the conversion to the Super Duty style tensioner. Recently my vacuum pump failed in fairly spectacular fashion; the belt just started disintegrating before I could get home and shut it down - it was down to 4 ribs at the end. I was able to replace the pump last night but due to a surprise rain storm I didn't get the belt on. I installed the special Motorcraft belt that the SD conversion required, carefully checked that the belt was properly installed on all pulleys and cranked it up. I immediately heard squeaking and saw wear on the back edge of the belt. I shut down the engine and went checking belt installation and pulley alignment. Didn't see anything wrong, so I fired it back up and looked hard at all the pulleys. What I finally saw is the water pump pulley is sticking out too far in front; the belt is running into and trying to climb the back lip, which is causing damage.
The water pump pulley is not wobbling, neither is the fan. Every other pulley is correctly aligned with each other and the tensioner is obviously recently replaced. The water pump seems to be working fine, no significant weepage and spins well when the belt is removed.
Pictures are clickable for larger versions.
Is there any way to fix this short of replacing the water pump and hoping that it somehow changes clearances? Do I maybe have an IDI pulley instead of what I'm supposed to have? There seems to be enough room in the drive area of the pulley for the 8 rib belt, but it's just jammed against the back edge.
The FEAD belt on the front of the engine is supposed to be an 8 rib model on my truck by production date. Most of the engine driven accessories on the truck when I got it were 8 rib except the pulley on the alternator, which I quickly replaced. That didn't solve the problem but I couldn't see anything else that could cause it so I had to leave it alone.
Over the course of the last couple years, I replaced the alternator, idler pulley, a/c compressor and I did the conversion to the Super Duty style tensioner. Recently my vacuum pump failed in fairly spectacular fashion; the belt just started disintegrating before I could get home and shut it down - it was down to 4 ribs at the end. I was able to replace the pump last night but due to a surprise rain storm I didn't get the belt on. I installed the special Motorcraft belt that the SD conversion required, carefully checked that the belt was properly installed on all pulleys and cranked it up. I immediately heard squeaking and saw wear on the back edge of the belt. I shut down the engine and went checking belt installation and pulley alignment. Didn't see anything wrong, so I fired it back up and looked hard at all the pulleys. What I finally saw is the water pump pulley is sticking out too far in front; the belt is running into and trying to climb the back lip, which is causing damage.
The water pump pulley is not wobbling, neither is the fan. Every other pulley is correctly aligned with each other and the tensioner is obviously recently replaced. The water pump seems to be working fine, no significant weepage and spins well when the belt is removed.
Pictures are clickable for larger versions.
Is there any way to fix this short of replacing the water pump and hoping that it somehow changes clearances? Do I maybe have an IDI pulley instead of what I'm supposed to have? There seems to be enough room in the drive area of the pulley for the 8 rib belt, but it's just jammed against the back edge.
#24
#25
I replaced the ENTIRE contraption as ONE UNIT, not disturbing anything and the problem is still solved.
UPDATE: To fix my problem [chewing up the belt and walking itself off via the power steering pump], I went to a salvage yard and found a 4.9L (VIN: K) engine/truck that had PERFECT belt alignment. I then removed the entire bracket with power steering pump and tensioner UNTOUCHED and installed everything as ONE UNIT onto my truck.
Immediately I could visually see the difference! In my case, the driver's side pulleys (tensioner, power steering pump and A/C) did not even LOOK straight compared to the other pulleys on the passenger side.
So, I replaced that entire bracket, installed ALL the bolts [including the additional support bracket for the A/C to PSteering pump, smaller bracket] and NO PROBLEMS WITH ALIGNMENT OR BELT WEAR SINCE!
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hav24wheel
1973 - 1979 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks
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08-25-2014 06:56 PM