I got a chance to uncover and look a little deeper into the issue. I have the timing cover, timing set, and dist out of it. I put the oil pump primer in it and started spinning it, looking down push rod holes oil coming from the lifters not around them, feeding oil at cam, #1 main coming from the top, the one that had me wondering, the higher I would try to get it to spin the more oil I could see escaping past oil pump to block( digging around on the cart I found the screw up, the gasket was not with the pump due to the box being torn, I ordered a new one and received a Windsor pick up tube to pump and at that point gave up and gave a coat of hylomar). Does it make any sense that I am seeing a drop in pressure at the gauge on the rear of the block and having a bleed off at the pump? I was searching around last night on the debate of gasket vs. no gasket, when I tore my 400 down for its 1st time it had one, both my 351w, 302s, every Windsor I have put oil pans on, only seen 1 that didn't. The discussions always say machine surface to machine surface no need but I am seeing oil dumping past and down the body of the pump .

Thank you,
Curtis

 

Since you have done some oiling system modifications, I would ditch the high volume pump and install a regular pump. I have thousands into my 400 and re-used the original pump, it seems to work just fine and I'm not worried about pumping the pan dry or tearing up my distributor gear.

 

Well I tore it down today, I stepped away from this project for a while with good reason I have a lot wrapped up in this engine. This isn't my 1st round 1st time this thing failed was my fault cam thrust plate bolts I trusted some very old Loctite and they walked loose.

This time, well This time as you can see from the rods bearings, main bearings block side they have a little but not bad, cap side looks ugly. Cam bearings ones from Tim grooved inside not upon further inspection bearing not centered with oil galley shouldn't affect it but just being me, and some very shiny bearings. Scoring that I was concerned about before when I got it from the shop well that's nothing now. Grand total of run time this round less than 1/2hour.

At this point and time I don't know what the future holds for my love hate relationship for this engine, I have always rooted for the underdog. The thousands of dollars I have into it vs. the amount I put into the 351W in my truck that the 400 is suppose to go into . Chime in if you guys want to on your thoughts opinions and anything.

 

Update; took the block, rods and pistons in to the machine shop and we checked them half of the rods .001-.0015 out of round, mains we got side tracked coating on bearing is the explanation of it. The scoring neither of us could drag a fingernail across it but I know it is there. I am going to do as it has been suggested here and by him, put a new pump in it, reassemble it and go from there.

 

What kind of berrins are you using? Those "scratches" sure seem like some dirt or some ***** got run through. Hope yer crank isn't out of round where the rods attach.

If I can find my old (2.5 years ago on a rebuild) cam berrins, you'll see some pretty pictures.......I feel yer pain, my friend.

 

Those are ACL bearings I got with the crank 10 years ago, I put them up when I got the crank with bearings and I forgot about them. First round I ran Clevite and found the bearings after did some research on the bearings that's what went in this time am thinking I will change rod bearings. The crank has no scoring on it but after seeing the video Tim posted on 400 cranks awhile ago it worries me a little but no one local to work with cranks it just goes to say shop A shop A ships it to a place in Detroit.
The shiny spots on my cam bearings lead me to really think my cam tunnel isn't straight each one has different spots and when I asked about the cam and how it felt when I picked this thing up after the shop having it I received a puzzled look and oh yeah its good, to me it felt tight. Tear down it definitely felt different.

 

'78 400....2.5 years ago. I told you I had some berrins from which you could get a chuckle from and relate.....How do you like those 'maters? Brought the block back, (cam in place), and told the machinist who put in those berrins that they needed a bit of bushin'/reaming 'cause the cam was too friggin tight to turn. When I put it in, used plenty of lube, etc...He says they'll be fine. Hadn't even got the crank in yet.....They got so hot they melted the babbit layer and plugged the oil holes. Maybe they were off a bit from the oil holes when he put them in? The engine is settin downstairs on a stand, waiting.......Hahahaha


From right to left: 1,2,3,4,5




Rear berrin--- the only halfway decent one.




Number 1 cam berrin




Number 4




Number 3

 

Did you check the cam on a set of V blocks with a dial indicator ? I've sent more than a few cams back to their mfgr. over the years. More often than not the cam is the problem & for some reason "just because it's new" people go to trimming the bearings trying to get it to turn free never thinking for a second that the cam is the problem. I check all cams, new or used before they go in.

 

Didn't check the journals' complete circumference, though, I
checked the lobes for correct dimensions and did the math on the lobe lift, etc,....(to make sure I got what I paid for)...checked the journal dimensions (coupla sides - 180*, 270*) against the berrins for range discrepancies.

Never thought to check the journal circumference for "out of roundness." I thought a few places would suffice. Silly me...done checked it a little more than 0.5 azz and it (probably) came back to bite me. I wouldn't have thought circumference being out of round would be a problem. But then you figure the billets the cam companies get are Chinee or from Argentina....Thanks, man!....won't happen again...next time (got a new cam settin here on my desk for another engine)... I'm going to check big fat mama's whole azz from now on, instead of 1/2azz. Thanks again, mark a.

 

Check the whole shaft for runout. Check it in 3 places, center & each end with a dial gauge & the cam set up on V blocks. Last one I sent back was a Howard's & it had .003 runout on one end so I never even tried it in the block. When checking the bearing clearance I check each journal with mics. but it's not likely you will find a journal out of round, but you never know.

 

It's etched in my bony little head now, brother...thanks again.

 

I had to "massage" the Howards cam that's in my 400 (78 Bronco) right now. The no. 5 journal (rear), was too tight. I didn't want to ream the bearing because they are coated, so I taped some fine sandpaper to a flat surface and spun that journal on it until it fit better. Crude, but sometimes you just have to make due.

I honestly don't know if the block was off, the cam, or some of both, but it's together now and seems to be working fine. Hopefully I'm never forced to tear it down, but would be curious to see what it looks like a couple of years from now.

Filthy Beast - that's flat out crazy! I wonder how it's even possible to get the cam that tight? Oversize journals, undersize bearings, .... A little of both? Ouch at any rate!

77 F150 - I hope you can get your issue figured out as well. Any chance the pump itself is cracked or something?

 

I needed a little 'massaging" also. I measured (inside/outside) calipers every thing - seemed a little snug but, hell, they were new. I could turn it with a bit of grunt. I knew it wasn't perfect but....I think the machinist had a rookie put in the cam berrins and they were off a tad, oil holes didn't line up well or somthing. Got too hot and melted the babbit layer, filling the oil holes.

From now on, it's checking the whole nine yards with a mic and dial gauge. (mark a's bit of insight - thanks). new cam/berrins checked with calipers, (again).....She's been runnin fine now..for about 2 years, no problems.
Never had a problem before with checking with calipers....go figure - just got lucky? Will check the whole runout, etc with dial gauge, mic now. Have another cam ready to go in another 400..just waiting for the time, etc. Thanks for the input and commiseration... hahahahaha

 

Hey 77, any update on this? Just reading through some 400 builds before I get in to mine...

 

Well back in December I took the block, rods/pistons to the machinist. rods 3-5 if I remember right were .002-.005 out of round. we checked block oil passage ways to see if someone screwed up everything checked out fine. We were leaning towards a bad oil pump. I never checked it just assembly lubed and rotated it felt fine but the rotor was digging into the cover so that is not good.
I have not done anything to it in awhile. I am going to put the lifter bushings in it, standard volume pump fresh bearings go back to a single oil filter. After tear down I did find one thing that cyl. #5 was clean clean( I had it running on carb first, then switched to EFI) I think #5 may have been just dead in the water.
If problems persist, either Track boss, or after buying my 2013 FX4 F150 6.2, it could easily get one of them. For the time being my work beater is getting a swap the 95 ranger 4.0 is tired very tired(bought it that way) going to go through the 4.2L v6 I just picked up 4R70W behind it and 1356 tcase. I haven't forgot about this just working 2nd shift I haven't had much time. but the fact #5 was not lighting off or getting fuel makes me wonder if there was some noise from there, when it had the carb on it there was nothing for noise just the oil pressure issue.
I have been picking at the 400 slowly, getting burnt out on this thing years of frustration, I will finish it and post findings as they happen. One thing I forgot to do was bring the cam with me to the machinist turning the cam by hand does not happen... one thing at a time.

Thank you,
Curtis