You can't make another log with the new settings?

 

yeah I can, but like I said this was for a customer who I met for a short moment and hooked up and went for a ride. Its not like the truck is sitting outside and I get to go play with it when I want. I had no more than 20 minutes to go over issues we found including testing. I posted due to the FPW reading being so far out. I know you think it was a calibration error, but after using this software for quite some time on dozens and dozens of trucks, I'm having a hard time second guessing what I saw. but I could be wrong. Only time will tell next time I get a chance to look at the truck.

Thanks for the help. I'll consider this one a dead end till I can get the vehicle for a bit more time.

 

As to the FIPW... I don't want to sound like a know-it-all, because I'm far from it - I'm more of a learn-it-all. Many of my lessons are by way of misfortune and stupidity, but whatever it takes to get the job done. I also say all of this with a tone of a friend trying to help you in any way I can, not one of disrespect to you or your obvious familiarity with the engine:

I work with "injectors" far more than any diesel mechanic. My company has several production lines that use the equivalent of HEUI injectors (air-powered instead of oil-powered). The big line would be akin to a 26-cylinder engine with 32 injectors per cylinder running at 7200 RPM. The "buzz test" is absolutely awesome - I'll make a vid of it soon.

In addition to that... I've spent a great deal of time with a tuning expert/diesel mechanic gleaning all I can from him on the 7.3L, plus I have a library of logs on the 7.3L (and a few 6.0Ls) from many scantools with logging capability. I have also recorded many dozens of AE logs and fought many an injector issue in "Stinky". Some versions of AE are notorious for mucking up the FIPW reading under the right conditions, and I've fielded countless questions and answers on this one particular issue. You can click the AE link in my signature for more info.

Again, with the utmost respect to you my new friend... I'm not guessing, estimating, or regurgitating forum rumors - I have a lot of direct experience here: The HEUI injectors in our trucks unravel under about 1.2 ms FIPW. 0.3 ms is not a long-enough pulse width for the solenoid to react (no ICP to the injector), unless you use insane voltages - which the IDM can't produce. The sync signal alone (KOEO) is 0.6 ms. At 0.3 ms FIPW, the truck will just be cranky in the driveway with no smoke. With the AE FIPW scale value set to 10 on your friend's truck, the FIPW would read a perfectly normal 3 ms (as you already know), and the truck will run. Since the truck reached WOT, I can only conclude you have the not-unusual AE bug with that particular truck.

I've made my case and that dead horse is sufficiently beaten. Even if you view me as a hack, I regard you as a knowledgeable new friend and I'm sure you'll be able to help the other guy.

 

The only Hack you have My friend, is from breathing smoke.....

 

I wasn't trying to offend you at all. You know how opinionated the forums can be... I was trying to keep an absolute open train of thought on it and spit out what I found...

Truck has negligible blowby, sufficient oil, 2980psi at WOT (on a stock 200k+ mile pump) and an extremely healthy duty cycle, 54psi fuel pressure at WOT, EOT checked in range, tranny temp was in range, coolant checked within range, nice tight and clean turbine inducer, no shaft movement verified post inspection, clean air filter, open EBPV, no oil in coolant or fuel, clean filter...and runs like a VW towing a pallet of bricks.... it was a lot to check in a short time we had...... soooooo..that is why I came here as the obvious ideas were checking out.

I'm just a bit perplexed as the truck is a complete turd, but doesn't show major maintenance neglect like most would, and he provided an extensive background on it. Ist gutless, probably worse than an IDI. Literally it accelerated like it had 12-14klbs behind it. I would have sold it a long time ago if it were mine and ran like dog chit.

It is definitely electronic vs mechanical as I see it right now. I came on here to ask for help. I'm not shunning away or trying to offend anyone for help. I just can't provide all of the readings requested and data logs and what not on every vehicle that comes in for service or a quick friend of a friend look over (which this was). It was a quick session and I was quite perplexed on what I saw for back pressure, manifold pressure, and FPW...I was going through as many metrics as I could. Those three were all so far out it was odd.

That being said, until i get more time with it, I'll go ahead and leave it alone. Thanks for the help guys wasn't trying to stir up offense on injector knowledge at all.

Never even hinted towards a hack, where did that come from :-)

 

Take a read through my recent thread about being sluggish uphill towing a trailer. It has a screenshot of a graphed log and some ideas in a situation that sounds similar to yours.

If you check out my build thread (link in my sig), towards the end where we replaced the orings on the injectors, you'll read about the trouble we had with being a real dog until we replaced a sensor. Night and day difference, not 10 mins to change it. Simple parts swap, easy to check if you have a known-good spare.

Pulling the red line is another easy, no-cost check.

Good things to know and have in your "bag-o-tricks"

 

Thanks a bunchI read through the last 3 pages...like most including myself I see you have done quite afew mods....please remember this is a troubleshoot of a bone stock truck....mods are not an option right now. Injectors are going to be replaced either way, but I want to know what the true issue is through diagnosing before suggesting anything, let alone performance modifications.

Now that you mention it I did not pull the red line and cap it! I'd be surprised if it was gating at all though, but hey thats still an option

 

Did you see the part on the injectors and turbo rebuild where we couldn't build any power? The sensor or solenoid was bad and wasn't keeping the wastegate closed.

It acted like little to no boost, sluggish on the pull outs, etc.

Those are stock injectors, orings replaced with Alliant orings (oem), oem glowplugs, oem turbo pedestal and other orings. Replacement (not stock design) UVCH harness+gasket. Only the wicked wheel in the turbo was a mod, the rest was maintenance related

Apparently you can remove and the redline to test the wastegate system. The next step is to disconnect the wastegate arm and "tie" it closed. If the problem goes away, you know what system to look deeper into

If not, you've ruled out a key "troublemaker" LOL.

Other than that, lots of pics to look at, same as other threads, to help you get oriented with all the pieces and parts, or to see what others have done right or wrong

Unplugging the EBP sensor sent mine way high, but the Ex ran very strong. That can help rule out the sensor and tubing.

Besides, every problem someone has and solves helps us all get better at find our own problems or helping the next guy, so be sure to keep us up to date with your findings

 

I didn't mean to imply I was offended... here's another "believe me when I tell you": I have experienced full-on troll mobs during "The Adventures of Stinky", but this tree has a lot of bark. I just read in your posts where you felt the FIPW reading was accurate and you were about to be led down the rabbit hole. Given how easy it is for that to happen, I just wanted to ramp up the point I was trying to make in order to be helpful - but I guess I overdid it. Sorry I raised the drama factor - really not my intent.

You just said the magic words I was looking for when you started this thread: "...an extremely healthy duty cycle". This was the primary reason I wanted to see the logs - analyze how the IPR/ICP relationship looked through the whole WOT run. There is such a thing as too healthy of an IPR reading. If the IPR was 42-45 at WOT, that's healthy. If the IPR was 30-40, that's a lying ICP sensor - very common. A lying ICP (reading higher than actual) will make the truck a total dog with low boost, but there won't be a miss, knock, or smoke. It will also idle quieter, but maybe have more emissions or even a little white smoke at idle.

Pulling the ICP sensor connector and allowing the PCM to set default IPR might kick the ol' gal right in the butt. Don't some of you wish it was that easy to do that to your mother-in-law?

 

Well I get the truck back this weekend. I will manifold pressure test it myself and square away any leaks, pull and check the turbo while its out for Orings. It is getting a set of stock ADs and FRX kit saturday morning. I will also be looking at any of the HPO lines for leaks as it was one of the other items he has asked me to check..

After this I will record a few runs for you after driving the truck about 80-100 miles down to a friends to purge air and say happy birthday to one of his two legged offspring. Let me know what you would like to see, as I am not seeing anything out of the ordinary(minus the horrible manifold pressure and odd pulse width) from the short while I was with it, and would like a second opinion of items I may have overlooked or did not mention previously.

 

Well as another update on this. After finding out the fuel rail plugs had been sheared off, and 4 hours to remove two 1/8 plugs. The injectors and frx kit are in. The truck did feel a little better, but not much. I didn't expect it too, but with 260 on the factory injectors, they were starting to stick and the poppet valve clearance was not within spec.

After a good 50 mile round trip driving it pretty darn hard the oil was all burnt off and she was starting fairly quick... still had a little air in there though.

I was able to boost leak check it and he had two. one small one at the AIH and a small one down near the plenum, however they were small bubbles... not 10 psi worth of leakage.

I did get a few logs recorded. Two things I noticed that were very different than the time before: hpop was still running just as well on duty cycle but was much weaker, 480 around idle, and a 2700 up top. The idle pressure was the biggest difference, and that was at oil temps around 200-210 which is right where we were last time. So that was a change, but could be related to air. I need to get a few runs to compare with a friend stock SD...

Secondly i had never selected engine coolant temp before, but I did this time and it said 261???? Stayed right there at 258-260 which is waaay hot but incorrect as the truck was not running that hot, but I thought this was pretty odd, and could see this metric affect the computer in a certain way.

All that being said the truck feels fine up to about half throttle and then simply does not have any *****. Boost just does not feel like its there. Unplugged the BOV line and no difference. EBPV is open. turbo wheel looks incredible for age of turbo and the shaft is nice and tight in and out. Something else is going on here.... I feel bad as I am having a hard time troubleshooting it, but have not seen one read healthy accross the board and drive like a turd, runs great at idle, but doesn't run well when in drive, more to come after it gets a new rearend next monday.

 

Don't worry about scanning the coolant temp on an AT truck. The coolant sensor only connects to the dash, not the PCM. PCM gets engine temp info from the oil temp. Manual trucks are different and actually use a second coolant temp sensor to report to the PCM.

By pulling the BOV line do you mean the red line to the wastegate? Next step there is wire the wastegate closed. A few laps like that won't hurt anything. Then at least the turbo can build as much boost as the available fuel will allow without the PCM blowing off pressure.

Ever get some fuel pressure numbers, especially at WOT?

The hpop numbers are fine.

 

I need a log. My HPOI formula needs a spread of PIDs together while driving, and during a WOT run. The list of needed PIDs was posted on June 27th.


Boost leak at the plenum, eh? I had that... it wasn't minor. The EBP and MAP jumped around too much. Your friend will never reach full potential with a leaky plenum. Sorry.

 

Good to know I was not positive, just thought it was odd about the coolant temp when I selected it.

Yeah I just removed the red line as mentioned before somewhere here in this thread, I forgot to give that a shot previously, but it was without result.

I will go ahead and try wiring the wastegate shut as well.

Fuel pressure is 52-54 now at WOT throttle. This recording through a liquid filled gauge on an extension loomed outside of the hood. I plumb in line downstream of the current FRX kit. What it sees is what the injector are seeing upstream.

I thought the HPOP #s were not bad as well, just thought it was weird we were seeing 480 when previously she was seeing 680-700 at idle and around 2950 at WOT. They dropped a bit. But I attribute that to aeriated oil. Next go around I will see again.

 

I will post it when I get a chance to from my shop computer.

Yeah it was at the plenum and AIH. It was minor. 5-6 pinhead bubbles in 10 seconds is minor to me. Leaking intake side or exhaust port to turbo collector sure it will never reach full potential, but that's not the bigger problem in the overall picture here. I could audibly hear multiple leaks on my plenums when i first tested the truck when purchased...and i could still hit 14-15 psi, not 8-9 like his is seeing! At half throttle there is not reason to keep pushing down, the truck hits a wall! We will get them sealed up when he can afford it, and will likely rebuild the turbo while its out.

Thanks again... I'll get them up soon or later.