R.Gates, With my old setup (stock suspension, no rear sway bar) I didn't suffer from trailer sway but I had huge issues with the very high (1450lbs) TH tongue weight pushing the rear of the EX around. At highway speed (and lower) if going into a curve on a downhill grade the trailer would push the rear of the EX into the next lane, it was pretty darn scary to drive. The addition of a Hellwig rear sway bar made a big improvement with that issue, swapping up to modded B code springs completely solved the problem. Are you getting any of this issue with your rig or are you getting trailer sway that then influences the EX? My experience has me think that my issue was mostly due to the wimpy rear springs Ford put on the EX, they seemed to flex in every direction possible under high loads and allowed the rear axle to be twisted and turned at the will of the heavy trailer's input.

 

WE3ZS-Yes, yes and yes. Downhill, slight curve and brake almost lost it. I did brake job on front today so don't know about downhill braking yet. I am leaning towards the Hellweg bar, but I would like to know more about the RAS system. Is there anyone out there with the RAS and how does it preform for you?

 

OK, been there, done that and have the soiled laundry to prove it! The addition of the Hellwig rear sway bar did make a significant improvement with that issue, but the cure was new rear heavier duty springs.
If the brake job was on the EX then that won't change the downhill into a curve death defying act any, that is the trailer having it's way with your squishy rear springs. Do you have your weights from the CAT scales handy? How does your front axle weight when loaded compare to the unhitched front weight? I'm just wondering if you are getting enough weight transfer back onto the frontend with the WD setup as it currently is.
I completely understand your (lack of) comfort level currently while towing. It was mainly the advice and help from forum members here that guided me in my build to get my EX to where it is now as a great towing rig. It can be done with some research and work (and a few parts too!).
I went with the Hellwig bar because I knew I would be also doing a rear spring swap eventually. The rear sway bar does a great job at what it's designed to do, provide counter-force to the lifting side of the suspension in a turn, but that is all. RAS on the other hand will also perform some degree of the same sort of extra anti-roll work and it also adds some extra spring capacity to the stock setup. It sounds like in your situation you may benefit in a heavier rear spring, whether it be from RAS or B or C codes. With your TT weighing only 6000lbs I would think even the stock wimpy EX springs should be able to handle the job, but obviously they are having some problems with it. My stock springs would not play well with my 9500lbs TH but after going to B codes they were fine and even now with our new TT at 11k lbs and 41' they work very well. But there are so many variables at play here, look at 1 EXcursion Camper, he still has his stock springs and pulls 9200lbs without issues. I'm sure that we, collectively can get you sorted out better than you are now, keep the info coming.
Does the trailer start to sway while going down the road on a flat and level run? Does it get started swaying from passing big rigs? Or crosswinds? Does it (the sway) start with the trailer wagging or is it the rear of the EX that starts the whole dance?

 

Thanks for the info. Don't know what the individual weights for the front and back axles of the truck, just the total of 8660# and a trailer weight of 5720#. Funny thing-the weight from the factory has the weight at 5748# without tanks or battery yet the cat scale said it weighed 5720. When I had the hitch installed they weighed the hitch weight at 820 with full tanks and battery. So the 5720 is with tanks, battery and loaded ready to go. Total weight of the whole thing is 14380#.
So from what I'm hearing, you think the RAS would do almost the same thing as installing the rear sway bar plus different leaf springs, is that correct?

 

When you got your CAT scale weights it should have given you the weights for front axle, rear axle and trailer axles separately. Was the trailer still hitched to the Ex when you got it's weight? If so whatever weight was being carried by the hitch should be added to the trailer weight. How exactly did you get weighed and what did you do to calculate the tongue weight? I have seen and read too many stories about poor WD hitch setup by dealers to have much faith that it was done correctly. Maybe your was done right but I think we need to look at everything before your next big trip. Here is a great writeup on proper WD setup using a CAT scale. RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Towing: Travel Trailer Hitch Set-up Procedure See if how you got your weights is similar to what the article describes.
8660lbs seems a little heavy for an EX, what motor do you have?

As far as RAS and upgraded springs, I would opt for the heavier springs personally (actually I already have! ). The stock rears are definitely weaker than the same year and power SD trucks so in my mind that is a good sound decision. My heavier rear springs (modded B codes with additional parts to add a total of 4.5" of lift) eliminated all of the bad behavior that my trailer was influencing on the rear suspension. The same springs (or the similar C codes) can be added without the extra parts I used to keep the lift much lower and still remain stronger (actually better than mine without my additional leverage due to lift). With the heavier springs I don't think RAS would be needed, I do think a rear sway bar would still be a plus (although less "needed" than with the stock springs), I still have my Hellwig in place.

 

Here is something else I just remembered-The X has a 44 gal gas tank. As the tank got lower some of the sway went away. This makes me think the rear of the truck has something to do with the sway and maybe the RAS system would be the way to go. What do you think?

 

RAS or springs may be a step in the right direction but I think we need to know and see more to figure out why a 6k TT is causing you such problems. How exactly did you get the weights mentioned? Can you post the weights as they appear on the CAT scales weight ticket? Did you make a single pass over the scales or multiple passes to get a full set of accurate weights? Do you have any pictures of the combination and the hitch setup?

 

Single pass. Steer axle 8660, trailer axle 5720, gross weight 14380. drive axle listed as 00.

 

OK, it looks like you pulled too far forward on the scale pads and missed the drive axle pad, so the only usable weight from that is the total combined weight. To get true accurate weights, a possible huge factor in troubleshooting your handling issues, you will need to revisit the scales and follow the procedure outlined in the above linked RV.net article. It is very possible that the WD is not correctly setup and that may be the root of all the problems. Good scale weights will tell a lot about that. Do you have any pictures of the combo?

 

No, it's parked in the driveway.

 

These two statements (in bold) appear to in conflict with each other, can you clarify them for us? Please be as accurate and descriptive as possible when detailing what the sway feels and looks like as well as where you think it may be originating, is it the rear of the EX starting to move or does it start with the trailer wagging? How did you deal with the sway events as they happened?

 

Ok, I will try to describe. I know the faster the better statement is in conflict, but that is how it seems at the time. I don't know how much road cup matters when towing. You know how all the cars and trucks going over a road sometimes where the tires pass leaves a little hill in the middle. Seems like it's a fine line where I put the tires. A little to the left or right of the center can cause the sway. Trucks passing seem to suck the truck and trailer towards them till they pass. When the sway happens at about 50 I am so intent on control I haven't had time to look back much, but when I did the trailer seemed fine. Wife said she thought it looked ok also. Anything over 50 and I have to keep watch for trucks passing or where the tires are to keep control, but when I had a concrete road with no tracks I was able to get it up to 65, which is max rating for trailer tires. If I get on new black top with no grooves I can go 65. When the fuel tank gets about 1/4 from empty the truck seems to handle better no matter what type of road and I can get up to 65. Crazy I know.

 

Some CAT scales only have 2 pads so you will only get a truck weight and a trailer weight. You'll need to find one with the 3 pad setup to get both truck axles as well as the trailer weight.

I know nothing about the dreaded Excursion wander, seems it was only a feature on 4WD models. That could be your problem, but it still sounds more like a trailer weight balancing issue to me. I'm assuming we can rule out any glaring suspension issues on your truck like bent springs and worn out parts.

I am questioning the tongue weight. A single pass over the scale won't tell you tongue weight. The dealer may have come up with that number from a tongue scale, but in light of your problems, I have my doubts about that number and my doubts about their setup. I also have my doubts about the other RV dealers if they didn't use a scale or at least a tape measure.

I suggest you go to a CAT scale with 3 pads (call ahead to confirm). Talk to the person inside and tell them what you want to do, you may need to go at an off hour to tie up the scale for a bit. Re-passes with the same unit are just a buck. You need to make a minimum of 3 passes, and most likely more to do some adjusting. Bring some tools to take the hitch head apart to add or remove washers.

Pass 1 with the WD bars on. Pass 2 with the WD bars released and just hanging off the hitch head. Pass 3 with the truck only. You could also make a 4th pass with dropping the trailer on the scale alone (wheels on one pad, tongue jack on a different pad) which will tell you the tongue weight without any math. Otherwise, the difference between rear axle weight between pass 2 and 3 is your tongue weight within a few lbs. Some weight from the front of the truck throws that off a small amount.

The tongue weight needs to be at least 10% of the trailer weight, 12-15% is better. If you don't have that, you'll need to move around your stuff inside the trailer to get there. Make sure this is correct first before you do any other adjustments.

Ideally, you want to get the front axle weight of your truck with the trailer attached and the WD on as close as possible to the truck only front axle weight. The number of washers in the hitch head will change that. Assuming you have an actual "Equal i zer brand" hitch Equal-i-zer® Hitch - The ?American Original? with 4-Point Sway Control? and Weight Distribution, moving the brackets on the trailer tongue 1 hole is the same as 1 washer and quicker to do, however you want the bars to be pretty much level in the final setup. The bars will be VERY tight when it's set up right. I have to lift the back of my truck a couple inches with the trailer jack to get my bars to slide in. I don't use the pry bar at all. BTW, what size bars do you have?

All of the above will cost you 15 bucks at the CAT scale, fuel to get there and a couple hours of your time. I think it has a decent shot at fixing your issues.

FWIW, my similar sized truck/trailer goes down the road with 2 fingers on the steering wheel happy as can be all day long. No reason yours should be any different.

 

ExxWhy-Your reply is the most comprehensive description of how to get the correct weights. Thank you for your time. The scale I used is a 3 pad CAT scale and having never done this before I told the weighmaster what I needed. He had me do one pass during the middle of the day and told me that if I needed more weights to come back after 10 pm when the truckers are all tucked into bed. I guess this is what I will have to do because all you out there have asked for more information on weights then I have. This will also give me the opportunity to take some pictures. That is if I can figure out how to post them. Again-Thanks for all the help from everyone-Rick

 

Tongue weight should be within 10% to 15% of the actual loaded trailer weight. Too little will cause sway BIG time. Too much can cause it too.

While getting the weights at a cat scale are great, rarely can you unhitch a trailer at a scale to get the tongue weight.

The Sherline scale is a great way to get the actual tongue weight. I use mine each time I go out to make sure that I get the load balanced to keep the tongue weight down to 1250lb. With out balancing the load and adding ballast water in the rear tank, the weight goes up to 1500 lbs. Don't guess. Make sure.