Shop refunded the fees. Brought the technician out to look at the sticker on the hood, he still tries to put the blame on the test not picking up the type of truck vs. him and the other two technicians taking primary responsibility for missing the sticker - three times.

Filing a complaint with the Bureau of Auto Repair for the shop and for their own failed testing software. Doubt it will go far, but worth a shot.

 

The process gets even better...Shop reports they get 'dinged' when they DON'T do a BAR-OIS test - electronically - and the process to challenge the 'violation' means the shop owner has to physically go to the state office.

Told the manager "if they ding you - you have proof you did the OIS test (against state law) and that IF they ding you, call me and I'll walk in with the owner to the BAR and file an in person complaint that the BAR software is in direct violation of state law."

I'd gladly take a day off work to put the screws to some twerp at BAR who insists their software is perfect...maybe bring a reporter or three with me.

 

The shop would be in the right if they did the smog correctly. They should have used the BAR97 machine and not the OIS machine in the first place and there would be no "ding". That is the way it is supposed to be done. Sounds like more not taking responsibility for making a mistake. Just say "Oops we made a mistake, sorry" and move on. Geez. You filing a complaint will likely send a BAR field rep to their door to discuss the complaint. If the rep finds they did nothing wrong there is no further challenge needed, it will be closed showing no fault with the station. If the rep finds fault with the station he will likely try to get your money back if they haven't already refunded you.

 

No, that's what you'd THINK...but the manager stated he did a similar truck and used the BAR97 from the start, and they were dinged - the electronic system found a "2000" model year and applied the same faulty logic the software has and put them on a warning list.

Basically - they did exactly what the law stated, but since the system that creates the infraction report is also flawed with the same bug their sniffers have, they get put on a warning list even though they did exactly what they were supposed to do.

That's why I told him if the report I'm filing about the software not being right generated a hit on that site to call me and I'll complain that BAR's own software is flawed.

I get what you are saying - their techs should have caught it. But even when they DO catch it, the shop still gets penalized for 'running the wrong test' when in fact they ran the right test.

Honestly, if I'm a smog shop owner in CA and I know about this bad software, I'd turn away owners of that type of truck...why should I run a smog check to the letter of the law, then get penalized for doing so? Too many of those penalties and they can take away their BAR license to run smog checks.

When you are the enforcing agency and you hand out bogus penalties, you have ZERO respectability. That would be like your local PD handing out speeding tickets for driving 55 in a 65 zone and you not having any way to fix it other than take a day off work and go fight a ticket you shouldn't have received in the first place.

The shop owned up to their techs screwing up and refunded me the fee...but when you find out even if they did catch the problem the'd have been busted by BAR, that's just not right.

Another thing that just sticks in my craw...the techs stated that they just changed the law about only allowing one 'not ready' alarm in a test. It used to be two 'not ready' alarms would be fine if the sniffer test passed.

But from what the tech (and even the BAR) is telling me, it makes zero difference if something is in 'not ready' mode if it's not throwing a code in the computer. If a person has the time they can go to a referee, have it tested there (bypassing the 'not ready' alarms) and still get a smog certificate.

It's basically making people think their car isn't going to pass, not throwing any codes on how to fix it, IMO hoping they'll get scared and sell their car/trade it in/drop a ton of cash for un-needed repairs to "fix" a problem that doesn't exist.

What's the point of having these flags if all you need to do is go to a referee who can complete the test and pass you?

It's this kind of inefficiency and BS that infuriates me about government.

 

In case anyone was wondering what CA tests for:


..."bad O2 sensor" my a$$.

 

Don't get me wrong. I too am a licensed smog tech in CA and manage a smog station. I have also had to admit fault when an employee makes a mistake. If the manager is saying they had a problem with this type of vehicle before then why would he smog it in the first place? Still covering his tail but at least he made you mostly whole ( can't correct for lost time or frustration ).

I have no love loss for the BAR and have had 2 inspectors out investigating me for a smog I did that the test procedure in the Mitchell manual was wrong and they WATCHED a referee test differently which is illegal and were calling me on it. When I told them that if I did it that way it would be illegal but if they gave me a paper stating I could then in the future I would. They both looked at each other and said they were going to look into it when they got back. I didn't hear from them again but that was a long time ago. With this new OIS system the BAR doesn't know, based on the last QA inspector I spoke with, exactly what is being looked at and everyone is on the edge with their tracking. We get dinged for a car that we passed 2 years ago but fails this time. They call it Follow Up Pass Rate and if too many of our previously passed vehicles fail the next inspection it counts against us...2 years later. I could go on with my issues with the program.

I'm glad you got it worked out and are good for 2 years. Who knows what new issues there will be then. HAHA

 

That's what's so infuriating...the state tries to penalize the operator for following the law.

To do the BAR-97 test you have to override the automatic testing in the machine to force it to the 97 instead of the OIS test. When the reports are somehow reviewed electronically later, the system 'automatically' dings you for overriding the settings, and the BAR jerks won't overturn the finding...basically penalizing the shop for doing the right thing.

The "right" thing to do would be to have the software auto-detect if it's OBD 1 or 2 and then do the test based on that - engineering out the possibility of a tech overriding it when they shouldn't. If they can't do that, then they need to fix the electronic process that automatically 'dings' a shop when they override it and make it a human process - that way if "Bob" dings you when he shouldn't have, you can educate him and he can overturn that warning.

But no, the State just allows the problem to exist, doesn't provide the shop with an efficient way of challenging the finding, and in the end the customer takes it in the a$$.

Just for giggles I called the BAR yesterday to advocate for the shop, asking who we need to complain to that the BAR dings shops for doing tests the right way. The 'expert' on the line insisted they don't issue warnings and he's never heard of someone getting a warning for doing the wrong test and that if they would simply call the STAR line or go to their field office, it would be overturned.

...wait...didn't you say they don't issue warnings to shops? ...but if they don't issue warnings, why should the shop owner go to the field office to overturn a warning that doesn't exist?

I'm seriously wondering if the press has any idea how screwed up the smog process is in CA and if one of these wormy "investigative reporters" might have some fun exposing how jacked up the system is.

 

Yeah, when I lived in NoVA I made friends with a shop across the street from my house. Made my life easier. The VA "system" backfired on me. I drove complete beaters that were too old for emission testing and netted the county $26 each (minimum cost) for personal property tax each year. Every time I strayed from my friendly shop (usually because they were too busy because they didn't screw people on inspections), I got hosed. "Hmmm, let's see, you can replace that $0.75 light bulb for $35 or I can do it and you make me wait an hour and charge me a $30 reinspection fee. What a deal ... for you."

 

Here in the Peoples Republic of California there is only emission testing, no safety inspections. We don't care if you have no brakes and kill a school bus full of kids as long as you don't damage the environment in the process.

 

How freaking ridiculous is that! I mean, it's not JUST freaking ridiculous, it's ABSOLUTELY freaking ridiculous!

Stewart

 

You got to love California,

I'm a smog tech and can tell you that I know that the new BAR machine do not detect all chips. As long as your monitors are complete and you are good visually, you have nothing to worry about. If you have any after market equipment, you better have your CARB exempt stickers for every component (side note, there are lazy smog techs that don't check properly, you can get luck. For example, say a shop that's really busy and on a low income part of town. If you get my drift). As far as monitors go, some cars complete within a few miles and others take 100's. My 7.3 Ex only has EGR, besides the common ones so it takes no tim to complete it's monitors. The misfire one on most cars fills up on the first cycle of the engine after clearing codes or disconnecting the battery on the car. EVAP, Cataliytic Converter, and 02 sensors are the ones that take the longest to complete. As far as codes, unless that code triggers the CEL/MIL light you are good to go. Plenty of people drive around with pending and active codes, like P0420, or P0173 which is a cat below efficiency code and 02 sensors out of range code. Anyways I'll get off my soap box, if you guys have any questions about smogging a vehicle, just ask or pm me. Oh, and stay away from Star Stations, your asking for trouble with those unless you are mandated by the DMV to go to one. Test only stations are your best bet.

Everything I've started is open source and common knowledge.

 

I'm not sure I'm following your post...

Follow up I failed to post...when BAR received the complaint they searched their records and found they NEVER sent a ding to that shop for using the wrong test as the owner claimed. The owner was applying a guilt trip defense to try to avoid the complaint to BAR.

In the end, this happened for one reason and one reason alone:

The smog tech was too damn lazy to tilt his head up and read the hood sticker.

Period.

With that sticker, he'd have known to do the correct test in the first place (override or use the opposite machine).

The tech missed this THREE TIMES over the course of about two and a half weeks.

The truck would have passed on the first try...there was nothing wrong with it, and you can see from the test it was actually below average in all monitored emissions (out of a 15 year old V10 engine, that's not too bad).

I'm interested to see if the techs catch it in 2017...

 

I went through this same situation this past summer for 2 weeks until I came on here and found the obd-1 federal vehicle info. I went back and told the shop owner and tech, the owner gave the tech a "dummy" look. lol
the funny thing is that they have passed it the last 4 years without any issues. I didn't have any of my exemption stickers until this last go around. long story short is they got dinged in 2014 and are by the book now.

 

Are you here in California? I'm being told by the Ford dealer this law just went into effect this year, and that in prior years you could have 2 sensors come back bad and still pass...this year the new law says only one.

That makes me wonder if they've been testing my truck wrong since I've owned it and it was passing (with 2 sensors coming back 'bad') anyway. Now that the law has changed, the Ford tech said he's been seeing a LOT of Excursion owners coming to the dealer to get it 'fixed' and he's been having to break the news that their truck is just fine.