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You can't fight the HOA or the ppl living in one. You will lose. Even if you win the battle you will not win in the end. Someone will carry a vendetta against you and it will be a constant struggle from there on. Even if you just drop this now, they will be keeping an eye on you now. You are not enough of a conformist for them.
A picture from further away might make me say hmmm. Too big. I'm going by the picture with everything I've said. That being said, the way it's parked says, "This is my hobby/baby."
It'd be different if it were parked on the street. Or if you cranked it, hammered the gas in your driveway for 5 minutes, then peeled off as you hauled A down the street on a frequent enough basis to bother someone. i.e. acting foolish. It's unfortunate that someone on the board sees this as an issue.
That's my reasonable opinion as someone who foolishly was big time involved with a HOA for awhile.
I can't wait for the battle to start. I'm getting a notice from my HOA about my F600. They verbally told me it is too large and violates the community regs. In my opnion, it is an antique, custom vehicle which happens to have F600 on it. Here's my defense...and the truck.
Good Afternoon,
I'm writing in regards to my 1967 custom Ford truck. I was recently approached by a Board member who I believe is Tom M****** and was told my vehicle has to be parked outside of the V*********** community.
I'm going to get right to the point in order to not waste the Board's time. The complaint against my vehicle has no standing and the following is proof as to why it is frivolous. First, I'd like to offer some definitions to ensure we are speaking the same language.
Curb Weight (CW): The total weight of a vehicle with standard equipment, all necessary operating consumables such as motor oil, transmission oil, coolant, air conditioning refrigerant, and 1/2-tank of fuel, while not loaded with either passengers or cargo.
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR): The maximum operating weight/mass of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers.
Payload Capacity (PC): The carrying capacity of the truck itself, separate from its towing capacity. A quick formula for determining payload capacity is taking the vehicle's Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and subtracting the Curb Weight.
My 1967 custom Ford truck is regular cab, 4x2 with a 330 cubic inch V8 engine. It has a CW of 6,050 (lbs) and a GVWR of 7,999 (lbs). This gives it a PC of 1,949 (lbs). Both my Florida Title and Florida Vehicle registration confirm this.
I've selected two trucks (Ford F-150 and F-250) that the Board has deemed acceptable, albeit incorrectly, under the Declarations, Covenants and Restrictions as they are currently written. Any similar manufacturers trucks (Chevrolet, Dodge, etc.) will have similar truck specifications.
The F-150 Regular Cab 4x2 with a 305 cubic inch V8 has two listed CWs of 4,223 (lbs) and 4,334 (lbs). These figures vary depending on wheelbase. The F-150 Regular Cab 4x2 with a 305 cubic inch V8 has four listed GVWRs of 6,200 (lbs), 6,750 (lbs), 7,600 (lbs) and 7,850 (lbs) and four listed PCs of 1,930 (lbs), 2,360 (lbs), 3,070 (lbs), and 3,300 (lbs), respectively. These weights vary depending on selected tow packages.
The F-250 Regular Cab 4x2 with a 378 cubic inch V8 has a listed CW of 5941 (lbs). The F-250 Regular Cab 4x2 with a 378 cubic inch V8 has two listed GVWRs of 9,900 (lbs) and 10,000 (lbs) and two listed PCs of 3,890 (lbs) and 4,040 (lbs), respectively. These weights vary depending on selected tow packages.
The Board has deemed the F-150 to be a "half-ton" truck and the F-250 to be a "three-quarter-ton" truck. In reality the F-150 is more of a "1 to 1.5 ton" truck and the F-250 is "2 ton" vehicle. If you research the CW, GVWR and PC of 4x4 models (which I can only assume are viewed as permissible in the eyes of the Board) the weights only get larger.
My truck's CW is about the same as the F-250s and has a lower PC than most of the F-150s. My GVWR falls right in the middle of the F-150 and F-250. My engine is slightly larger than an F-150, but it is nearly 50 cubic inches smaller than the F-250.
Aditionally, it is a custom, antique vehicle that in no way, shape or form could be confused for a commercial vehicle. Furthermore, the State of Florida has classified it as a private vehicle.
The Federal Highway Administration has eight "classes" of trucks. The classes are based off the GVWR of the vehicle. Both the F-150 and F-250 are deemed to be a class two truck (GVWR between 6,000 and 10000). My truck is in this category as well. Trucks with GVWR of less than 10,000 pounds are all considered "light-duty" trucks.
Classifying vehicles as "half-ton", "three-quarter-ton" and "one-ton" does not apply to trucks today. If you are interested in learning about why trucks were originally called "half-ton", "three-quarter-ton" and "one-ton" then I suggest you read the link below. The bottom line is a "half-ton" truck has not been a "half-ton" since the 60's. The same goes for "three-quarter-ton" and "one-ton" trucks.
I would like to end with two thoughts; the first being selective enforcement and the second being waivers.
Selective enforcement means you cannot ignore violations of a rule by some and enforce the same rule against others. If the Board wants to pursue this matter then they will have to restrict ALL trucks that have a payload capacity of more than 1,500 pounds, which is just about every truck on the road today. This would unfortunately include Mr. ******'s own F-250.
Waiver is a similar legal concept in that if the board ignores an obvious rule violation for a specific amount of time, enforcement of that rule might be "waived" against future rules violations of the same nature. My truck had been parked in the front our house for 39 days before any complaint was filed. Section 6.7.4 of the Declarations Covenants and Restrictions states that "parking on a 'temporary or short-term basis' shall mean and be defined as parking, on a non-recurring basis and for a single period not exceeding twenty-four hours." If my vehicle is considered to be violating the Declarations, Covenants and Restrictions, why did it take the Board 39 times (936 hours) the documented allowable timeframe of the alleged violation to notify me?
I will only accept a response mail or email and I eagerly look forward to the Board's response.
1st let me say by no means am I on the side of the HOA.
Now, lets be realistic here. How could you possibly have a F600 that's factory rated less than a F350. I'd sure like to see the warranty plate on the driver's door. Those doors are the same F100/750. So that door and serial number might have been off a F250. Was this custom truck originally built by Ford as a F600? Or was it a F250 custom built with F600 suspension and axles?
In my eyes it doesn't matter what the capability could or might be. It matters what's on the title and registration provided to me by the state of Florida. And that says the trucks curb weight is 6050 and it's GVWR is 7999.
In my eyes it doesn't matter what the capability could or might be. It matters what's on the title and registration provided to me by the state of Florida. And that says the trucks curb weight is 6050 and it's GVWR is 7999.
So your F600 truck can only handle carrying 1949 pounds? Leave us face it, You have a custom truck. Bad Azz BTW. Somebody at the state of Florida had no clue what to fill in since it is custom. So they added 7999 just to pick a number. Ford didn't. They would have added an even 8000 if it were true. So taking advantage of that because you want to just isn't right. IMHO rather than being a good debater you ought to come from the friendly,non-commercial stance mentioned above.
That's an awesome truck. I've been stuck in a HOA for the past 8 years. I keep waiting for someone to say something about my truck but so far they have not. Now that housing prices are recovering in my area we are looking to get out.
Naturally the wording in the HOA covenants is fairly vauge. It states that "No truck, bus, trailer or other "commercial vehicle" (defined in section 6.7.6)...shall be permitted to be parked or stored on the SUBJECT PROPERTY, unless the same is parked or stored fully entirely within and fully enclosed in a garage." It goes on to say the street can't be used and they offer an exemption for temporary work being done at a home.
They go on do define a commercial vehicle as "a truck, bus, van or motor home of greater than 3/4 ton capacity or as designated as such by the State of Florida Division of Motor Vehicles." It also says things can't have signs even if its a car, but none of it applies.
So if I'm interpreting the rules correctly, no trucks (regardless of size) are permitted at all unless they are garaged. The first sentence implies this.
Their interpretation is that only trucks with 3/4 ton capacity or less are permitted, but they are over simplifying it and saying that a F-150, F-250, Ram 1500, Ram 2500, etc. are acceptable. This is incorrect in my opinion because they all have capacities larger than 3/4 of a ton.
Thoughts?
This whole GVWR is just going to confuse them. As long as the state does not classify the vehicle as commercial, you are fine. They can't overrule the state.
Go and try to get it classified as historic or antique or classic, then the for sure can't say it is commercial if you have said type of plates on the truck.
I've been reading and following along with this from the beginning. I think I will chime in now with my two cents.
First off, nice rig! I don't care if it is a F100 with F600 fenders, or a F600 with a smaller F100 cab, doors, frame... still a nice truck.
As an architect, I deal with HOAs frequently in my job. I sit on the board of my own personal HOA as the secretary, and have for several years now. There are two basic kinds of HOAs. The one for my neighborhood is what they consider "voluntary" in that no one will make you pay your dues. There are no deed restrictions, and the HOA does not even get involved during a property title search for deed transfers. The other basic kind is a "non-voluntary" type that is much more restrictive. Since you bought property into their domain, they can control you. When you closed on your house, you singed a form regarding the covenants and restriction placed by the HOA. This is how they get you. They can claim, "our laws were already in place, you chose to move here..." It's controlling BS. They know it, we all know it as BS, but nevertheless, it's there.
Your explanation of the GVWRs, while is spot on, is also too complicated for them. While I do 110% agree with your facts and figures quoted. This is what it boils down to: they will see a F100, F150, F250 and a 3/4 ton and below. They will see a F350 and bigger as a one ton and above. Secondly, They base their standing on commercial trucks. Yours is not a commercial truck. Period. It's that simple. If someone on the board (or that trouble making dweeb) wants to claim that your truck is a commercial truck, the burden of proof will be on them. Unless you have signage, commercial plates, or OBVIOUS proof that your truck is used for commercial purposes, I would play it as a non-issue. Seriously, if it came up at the next meeting, I would stand up (when it's your turn to speak) and state that your truck is not a commercial truck, you don't use your truck for commercial purposes, and the state of Florida does not classify it as a commercial truck. Following with, "if the board would like to argue with the state of Florida over this legal issue of classification of motorized vehicles, then go for it."
Seriously, my stand would be that it is all a non-issue. Your truck does not fall under the definitions of the HOA guidelines and rules. Simply put.
I went through this ordeal with my township 11 yrs ago when I moved in. No HOA, but just township ZONING laws. Seems they don't like "semi's". Even though mine is just a historical vehicle. I fought, even paid for a zoning variance. No go. I got them to give me a year to take care of it. I cut my garage up and made it fit inside(lucky I have a big garage).
I do leave it out on occasion, but it now resides inside. Which is okay, but the way I had to go about it sucked. I went from a tiny city property with it outside and no complaints to out in the rural township area and got flak for it. Ugh, go figure. My neighbors didn't care about it. Likely a township truck happen to see it and turned me in.
Good luck. The zoning board looked at it as "it is not a car, boat, camper, or pickup...thus it is a semi truck" and that is what they hung their hat on.
I have friends in HOA lots. They can't have cars in their driveway overnight, let alone any kind of trailer, etc. I like your truck, but I can see they know that it is not "just a pickup".
I have an HOA too. No problems. People can complain about anything. There's a lot of grey area in any HOA rule. At least around here. Someone does not like your truck.
Where do you come up with a GVWR of 7999 on an F600? It is a way cool truck but you are kinda pounding sand saying it's just basically no different than a 3/4 ton.
05-30-2015, 02:43 PM
