We have several 6.7 liters in our fleet. I don't know the actual number but it's probably something like 5 Fords and 4 Dodge models. None have more than 25k miles on them yet so it's still early days. I think a couple of our Fords have had some sensor issues related to the emissions systems. The Dodges have been great but last week one pulled into our yard pouring a trail of diesel fuel. Turns out that some plastic coupling in the fuel connection at the filter bowl came loose and it started leaking. We had the mechanic come out and repair it in our yard for no charge (if you don't count the gallons of diesel we must have dumped on the roads).

If I had to buy a new truck for myself and it had to be diesel...then it would be the Dodge because I prefer the less complicated Cummins design compared to what Ford is offering. If I can make do with a gas engine then I'd stick with Ford.

My $0.02....

 

Very interesting thread! Reading your thoughts on the late Ford and Cummins engines! Has anybody here have any experience with the half ton Dodge Fiat deezel engine? Just askin!

Smokie

 

I'm also thinking hard about the Dodge 6.4L Hemi as well. While I love the diesels I don't love the price and I don't love the added emissions reliability challenges especially in cold climates that I have seen.

For towing a 6000-8000lb horse trailer I'd be fine with a gasser as well, just like the towing characteristics of the diesels a little better, but not THAT much better.

I'm just tired of being nickle and dimed to death on my Ford right now. I love it, just feel the thing will rust out from under me before the drivetrain gives up.

Only has 106K on it as well.

 

Sounds like you need to buy my truck and give me yours so I can swap my 52 ****** truck body onto it

 

I went with a 2015 Silverado 2500HD Duramax. I like it so far. I just had to have an airbag sensor replaced. Service Airbag and Service Stabiltrak lights came on within the first week. . We took a short trip from Indianapolis to southern Indiana a few weeks ago. It rides like a dream. 1850 rpm at 83 mph .

I drove a 2015 Dodge 6.7 and it was very nice also. I didn't want the full center console. It seemed to have more torque when it shifted into 2nd while rolling into it. But it also seemed to follow the road lean like my 02 7.3. And with the fleet price it came out to about $10k off the sticker which was about $1k less than the Chevy. I also got them to give a lifetime powertrain warranty which they claimed they normally don't do with the fleet price.

So it came down to, console, color, ride, steering characteristics and the allison trans for me.

I didn't even drive the Ford 6.7. I don't care for the grille and dash layout. They also weren't looking to deal much. Ford definitely has the most comfortable seats. Chevy/GMC being second and Dodge last IMO.

I do miss my 7.3 but I can't wait to pull the 5er with the new truck.

*Edit - Dodge is offering fleet price to military, law enforcement, fire fighters, and ems. Not sure if the military is just active duty or also retired or veterans.

Hope this helps.

 

Lol, but then I would have to swap all the emissions crap back onto it, resulting more money and the castration of that nice rig.....

My dilemma is I like diesel, but I also like knowing that during the hectic horse show season I can always turn the key and just go......without worrying about the heavy maintenance schedule that I have to keep in order to make sure I don't end up on the side of the road with horses in a trailer etc.

I don't tow heavy enough often enough to push the limits of the new gassers but I like having a 250/2500 chassis, weight and brakes under me for obvious reasons.

The additional up front premium of the newer diesels and the added potential sensor driven nightmare that awaits me at the 70K+ mile mark in a cold climate is not something I feel like paying a premium for. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.

I might end up just getting a 2500 gasser and retiring my Tundra to hunting only duty and get started on the payments on the 2500 while I tow a couple years with the 7.3L and have a backup available......Nancy can drive the 2500 daily while I drive the Rav4 we have or the 7.3L......awe hell WTF knows....either way I am dropping $2000 on the 7.3L rig this week as I was in a pinch.

At least there are options.....

 

not a fiat diesel, it is a VM Motori diesel.
and VM Motori is owned by general motors and Penske.
a friend has one as a company truck. it get rite around 30 MPG running around empty.
he said it has quite a bit of turbo lag, but once wound up it is very responsive.

if you keep the dodge more than 5 years, it will do the same thing. after around 5 years things start falling off and it costs a fortune to keep them running once the warranty runs out.

 

Every badge has their issues. Pick something you prefer and go for it. IMO, badge loyalty is silly. Heck, I even peal off the dealer sticker. I would be rich if I had the money to put all 3 badges together to make 1 truck. The new technology has it problems but it also has it's benefits.

 

I am a Ford fan in that I l have one, but I also have a Tundra of the same era which is a fantastic truck for what it is, I alos have nothing against the Rams or Chevys.......they all have their warts.

Plus, the new generation Rams haven't been around for 5 years to even draw a conclusion. I like the new frames and I like the new suspension on the 2500 and the 392 is a nice option.

With the new diesels, if you aren't towing 40% of the time the numbers just don't make sense; unless someone just wants one which is perfectly fine as well....heck we are all here with diesels right?

I love my rig, but, I'm not going to spend thousands every year just replacing parts and chasing reliability and comfort

 

Do you expect to have to spend hat kind of money yearly ?
Really. That seems unrealistic, but I am here to learn.
Give me your thoughts

Kyle

 

I have worked on all these truck or, know people I see very often who work on these and, we share experiences regularly over Adult Beverages often.

First off, you're comparing Apples to Oranges when discussing the three major manufacturers who use these power plants. What I mean to say is your comparing Domestic and Foreign Production subsidized by Congress.

First off, Cummins and Duramax both have their fair share of issues AND expense. And, Ford is the only one who manufactures their own powertrain.

Duramax is manufactured by GM and Isuzu - Joint Venture. both Cummins and Duramax are cast in Pakistan and India. Cummins has an additional 20 factories (and 9000 employees) in India.

Powerstroke 6.4: The 6.4L Power Stroke was introduced for the 2008 model year. Still manufactured for Ford by Navistar (in the U.S.), the first engine that utilized dual turbochargers from the factory.

Powerstroke 6.7: Manufactured solely by Ford Motor Company (with NO Bail Out Money), designed with input from AVL (the largest privately owned company for the development of powertrain systems, engines, instrumentation, and test systems).

Ford destroyed the competition with its new fuel injection System: High-pressure common-rail, Bosch CP4 injection pump, piezo electric injectors.

This is probably the most advanced design of any light duty diesel. It has hands-down, the best DESIGN Turbo System (Issues with the Turbo has been traced back to ceramic bearings with inadequate lubrication.

I'm not going to address the 3.2L or 5.2- Different Application.

So, what makes ALL these drivetrains subject to catastrophic failure?

Emissions!

To get to the NOx EPA Standard, all require two or more of the following control systems.

Diesel Oxidation Catalyst
Diesel Particulate Filter
Selective Catalytic Reduction (Diesel Exhaust Fluid)

You can not take a simple design such as Rudolf Diesel came up with and restrict it. It just doesn't work well. The biggest advance was introduced when the IDI and DIT systems were added to the 7.3.

Of all these, in the Cumming years, I believe Ford will be the one who finally figures out the NOx without paralyzing the life expectancy.

Let's address the most popular and sought after 7.3L. The best selling engine in its class. Due to its popularity, nearly 2 million 7.3s were produced from International's Indianapolis plant

The 7.3 L DI Power Stroke was in production until the second quarter of model year 2003. when it was replaced by the 6.0L because of its inability to meet newer emission requirements. They continued to be manufactured for overseas delivery through 2005. Navistar made the decision to stop production and re-tool for Ford.

What went wrong with the 6.0?

The 6.0 became problematic because of its unreliability.

Unreliable because it was rushed to production. The enactment of the NOx requirement in EUROPE in 2001 caused American Manufacturers to rush in design and production. The 6.0 was "re-vamped" in late 2004 for the 2005 Model Year and the majority of the issues were corrected.

Why the 6.4 if the 6.0 was corrected (about 80%).

Ford saw the political writing on the wall with changes in Congress and the election of a new president following Republicans in the White House for 8 years.

Every indication pointed to the U.S. Signing on to the European Standard (and Ford was right). The Bail Outs had the politicians and manufactures (not Ford) in their Hip Pocket and a political front was about to change.

Even with the issues confronting ford since 2003, they continue to be best selling power plant in the history of the light duty diesel application.

Had regulation not been enacted, I believe the 7.3 (or a variation) would still be in production and would be approaching 5 million units.

Just a quick history lesson. American Made never fails. It has its issues. It's beat, its battered, but it has always got up and whipped the competition.

I will now, get down from my Soap Box - I can't help it. I'm American Born and Army Trained - HOOAH!

 

Tried to rep you for that wonderful post Tom, but ive got to spread the love around before i can share with you again..... great post...

 

I just love anything made by International Harvester! 3 of their Tractors and The Best Powerplant made for a truck! Ford needs to go back to what works best...Enough Brain power will cure the Nox issue.

 

This may sound stupid to some and I'm sure some will understand. This is what I like to do when I'm test driving a diesel.
I drive it unloaded like it doesn't have a turbo. What I mean is drive it without making the boost gauge move at all, see how hard you can push it with 0 psi. If you pay close attention to how the truck acts you can imagine what it's like loaded. Sure shift points and load have a lot to do with how it's going to performbut doing this gives a good base line to compare most diesels without numbers or anything scientific.
For instance, my 7.3 was a pig driving around like that, taking a long time to get up to speed and falling back down on power with every shift.
For comparison my, 6.7 Cummins will get up to speed like a 6 cylinder car would getting up to speed normally. When the Cummins shifts it loads up and feels like it's going to go flying because the torque is there to do whatever whenever.
There 2 completely different animals driving that way but still as close of a "test" as you can get just by jumping in either one, or any vehicle for that instance. It tells me a lot about how the truck will act in a lot of other situations and which would be better all the way around. If you get the opportunity try this with a Ford 6.7...
I wish some of you guys could come drive my truck and you would understand much better. $10 a ride, fuel and tires are not cheap lol

 

If history is any indicator from the past couple years, then yes......an easy $1500-3000 (past couple years have been in that range) and maybe more depending on what goes (still on stock split shots now) but technically that is still cheaper than a new rig, the challenge for me is maintaining reliability through it all. And fighting the rust. I have faith in the 7.3L, it's everything around it that I'm beginning to fight a bit at the 15 year mark. I think I'm set up well for a good towing season provided I put about 4-6 hours into it this weekend in additional maintenance.

It isn't the money necessarily, it is the downtime, the running around, the trying to figure out how and when to repair it so I don't pay someone and triple the bill etc. I don't have the time or the space to constantly work on a vehicle. I'm rebuilding/repairing our cabin on the weekends and dealing with the insurance claim etc so my time for this crap is limited. spending a day wrenching on the truck is one day I am not working on my home etc. that is a problem for me. Everyone is different.

Tom's 100% right from what I can tell, the issues people have that I personally know have mostly been related to emissions equipment and the like. Sensor failure, DEF heater failures, etc. Some fuel system troubles with my friend's 6.7 as they are very sensitive.