I recently bought a 2002 F350 Auto 4x4 w a 7.3. I has had some minor mods done to it. It does not feel like it has the stock tune in the PCM. My cousin hooked up a scan tool to see if he could tell if it was aftermarket tuned by reading FIPW. It is reading 2.6 at idle and around 4.3-4.6 at WOT. It has banks stickers under the hood, a banks big head.

What should be the max FIPW at WOT on a stock PCM ford factory programming?

He says that that is too much and should probably not go above 2.8. Everything else is stock except the intake and exhaust. Thank you for your help.

 

Stock max is very close to 3.0. While you're looking at FIPW, have a gander at ICP and IPR (at WOT). You'll find ICP way down low (stock is 2400 - 2800) and IPR in the rafters (stock about 40% - with max limit of 65%). The result is my official definition of a "hot" tune.

 

So, Rich, for clarity, would it be safe to say that the PCM does not contain the stock flash?

Sounds like it is aftermarket....but I could be wrong.

To the OP. Look at your PCM and see if the little plastic access cover is still present. If so, remove it and see if it looks as though the clear silicone is still present on the pins. What color are the pins if it is removed or once you remove it.

Some of the old and current programmers used the OBDII port....like Superchips etc.

 

If that FIPW is during Wide Open Throttle operation, then there is a high likelihood a program exists in the PCM. There are a few possible scenarios where the stock FIPW can go high at WOT, but I can't remember if I've seen one or not. I can tell you I see high FIPW at WOT in the data from chipped trucks almost every day... it's as common as snooty Prius drivers.

Now... if the OP was looking at FIPW max by itself, and that logging time included a start - then that could be anything, including stock.

 

That was seen at WOT on three different passes and doesn't include a start up.

Should I look into getting the PCM flashed back to factory specs? I will be towing around 14k...

 

With over 4 ms of FIPW easily on tap, you won't be towing that heavy without keeping a very close eye on the EGT gauge.... if you have one.


Did you check everywhere in the truck to see if there's a programmer tucked away somewhere? So many times I've seen used trucks that have a tuner, and you can find the programmer under a seat somewhere or stashed away in a bin behind the rear seat.


If you find the programmer, then you can reflash it back to stock in just a few minutes.


If not... then double check for anything else plugged into the PCM and/or DLC.

 

You would have recognized it if you seen one. It would have been one smokey SOB that ran like a dog turd mounted to a set of wheels. And it wouldn't have been due to a boost/exhaust leak. More like a failing or extremely week HPOP.

 

The first thing is the FIPW varies based on several factors. Some include the overall condition of the HPO System, Fuel System, Duty of the engine (Load), programming, etc. At WOT, loaded (Truck + 8,800 lbs.) you will see upwards of 5-6 ms.

Its important to realize the FIPW is present in all three Stages of Injection: Fill (poppet valve is closed). Injection,: The IDM sends an electric pulse to the injector solenoid. And, End of Injection (a reversal of the second stage).

If you have between say 40 and 70 psig fuel pressure (WOT), HPOP around 2100 - 2300 (2,500 on a new unit) you shouldn't be seeing anything higher than 6 ms and nothing lower than 1 ms at idle around 500. This is how the timing of events occurs. Remember the HPOP is VOLUME not pressure purse. The pressure is less important that the volume when considering that Oil, Fuel, and Pulse must be delivered at the right pressure, right pule, and right volume.

Anything outside those values will usually make the thing a slug and oftem sound like you re going to see push rods shoot through the hood. Also, some other symptoms are smoke (O-Rings can't take it), idle like crap (wear in HPO System), etc. Exceeding the FIPW will reek havoc on your HPO System and all its components.

On a "properly" programmed chip or PCM we see a slight increase in EGT's but you can always de-fuel with the foot to correct. On the flip side, de-fueling can also cause a "to lean condition" and can burn a whole in top of the piston, excessively heat a connecting rod bearing, and other things that make me cringe in a blink of an eye if the FIPW is not correct for the delivery. Taking away fuel when its needed to cool and balance the combustion chamber as well as making power is a bad thing.

There are some excellent points mentioned. To address just one, What You See is NOT always what you get looking at a Scan Tool with a MOTIFIED program unless the proper parameters are selected. Unfortunately, if you don't know what's been dome, one really doesn't know what to look for, just a helpful hint I learned learning the dyno. It takes numerous runs to average what's really going on. You need things like a scope capable of capturing data at 20-100ms to see the "Big" picture

Suggest you find someone with a J2534 protocol pass-through device and you can read the program access date to see if its been messed with. You may just wish to re-flash the PCM to the latest factory stock tune which is a $25.00 download using the J2534.

Since I can't look at your setup, here are the most Recent Software Part Number for MY02 F-SERIES SUPER DUTY, 7.3L

2C3F-BE PCM AEB4 DPC-461
2C3F-CE PCM GDU4 DPC-461
2C3F-DF PCM VDH5 DPC-462
2C3F-EF PCM BXE5 DPC-462
2C3F-FF PCM VDU5 DPC-462
2C3F-LF PCM KEK5 DPC-462
2U7A-DNA PCM NWM0 DPC-462
2U7A-DPA PCM PBY0 DPC-462
2U7A-DRA PCM RDW0 DPC-462
2U7A-DSB PCM SHT1 DPC-492
2U7A-DTA PCM TMA0 DPC-462
2U7A-HKA PCM HFP0 DPC-491
2U7A-HMA PCM MYG0 DPC-492

 

No truck should ever be seeing 5-6ms of FIPW with any injector stock or otherwise. If so, that is just absolutely horrible tuning at work.

And the HPOP in stock calibration is more like 2700-2800 psi at WOT..... new or not.

The HPOP will drop pressure if it can't keep up the supply of oil volume necessary to maintain pressure. To explain: tune any set of injectors to reach 5-6ms of FIPW, and you now need such a large volume of oil to keep the injectors open that long that nothing short of a highly modified HPOP setup or twin pump setup can keep up with.

You cannot dictate oil volume with tuning. The HPOP is a fixed volume pump, meaning it will always supply a set volume of oil per pump revolution. Tuning can only dictate pressure, and that is done based on the regulator allowing oil to pass to the heads.

You're talking about a gas engine, not a diesel. A diesel does not run at a fixed stoichiometric air/fuel ratio like a gas motor does. Taking away fuel in a diesel simply takes away power, heat, and cylinder pressure. Adding fuel in a diesel adds power, heat, and cylinder pressure. If you want to burn a hole in the top of a piston on a diesel, or snap a rod in half, just keep adding more fuel until it happens.

If you take away the fuel completely and the motor is still turning, you've in effect created a giant air pump.

 

Well, your response is interesting. I say that because seldom do I ever post without first looking the information up. And, I think you are either too fast to attack or mixing Apples and Oranges to what is stated.


We're dealing with a Stock Truck and therefore your numbers are arbitrary based on what the manufacturer states specifically in their design and tuning manual.


To address each, as for horrible tuning work, those parameters are specifically what's referenced in both the International and Cumming HEUI manual.


No tuning will adjust pressure or supply delivery of the HPOP. Where you got that from I am confused. Perhaps you miss understood my comment or the relationship with which I attempted to marry the two. I stand by the statement that PRESSURE is secondary to VOLUME in any HEUI System. It's fact. We're not discussing parallel HPOP's here. We're dealing with a stock unit.


As for the 2,800 psig, you will never see a maintained pressure on a stock truck of 2,800. 2,800 is the maximum pumps rating based on its delivery of fuel. It's design is not centrifugal and therefore does not take advantage of incoming pressure to net a higher maintained pressure under less actual work. Its displacement and has a very limited amount of oil in the reservoir (1.0 - 1.25 qts.) with which to supply it and receives only approximately .434 lbs. dependent upon elevation. One of the bigger issues I have with advertisers selling the super-duper-greater pumps.


Once it reaches it's maximum the pressure (if it is able to) it will fall off and defuel the vehicle because neither the HPOP or FP can keep up without cavitation. At that point your in danger of damaging the system. In that something is going to give, the maximum pressure is what the pump can reach, not maintain. Again, pressure is secondary to volume. That's why the lower limits are expressed in the acceptable range. The best safety feature as an unintended design consequence of the HEUI System is if you loose oil volume the worst thing that will occur is the engine shuts off. Cavitate the fuel, you destroy the injectors. This is why fuel, oil, and PW is so important to be balanced.


As for Gasoline Engines. Your correct in the fact what I "think" you're referring to. But, that was not what I was referring to. Perhaps, again, I didn't explain or post the entire copy-paste from the information reference.

Overlapping, lean/fat and incorrect PW on a companion cylinder (imbalance) will destroy its components. You are correct that any injection system is an air pump. Without fuel delivery properly introduced, repeated cycles will damage parts. Primarily, the valve guides, connecting rod bushings, followed by the rings, and so on. The opposing cylinder will beat it to death. It basically becomes a marble which gets slapped around.


The question here is "Does the OP have a Tune, and what his/her FPW numbers are. And, can they adversely affect his Engine if he Tows. And, the answer is simply: Yes. If not correct, he/she is risking damage to one or more systems in the process.

 

Curtis,

Give up now man. I thought about posting last night but I realized that it would be all for naught.

You won't win. It's like the "now I understand the dyno" guy from a few months ago.

-Cody

 

can someone please make a public service announcement on wonky information in this thread before someone does a search, believes the wonky information and sends a rod into orbit...... "cleatus12r" and "Pocket" have their crap together here.

Not passing judgement as I really appreciate people taking the time to post information like WhiteMW, but "cleatus12r" and "Pocket" are pretty well established when it comes to tuning the 7.3L platform.

 

I'll try my hand at it with this stupid "I'm all thumbs" iPhony.

While I don't do diesel for a living like Cody, all my experience backs Cody and Pocket - the book notwithstanding, and all due respect to our contributing friend whitetmw:

Stinky absolutely hates any FIPW over 3 ms, as does every single truck I've seen the logs for - with exception of one truck with twin Adrenalins... and it still ran high EGTs.

I have graphs coming out my ears to back this up, and three volunteers are currently working feverishly 7 days a week to get these published to a shared folder separate from the FTE site.

 

But that's not what is actually programmed in the stock Ford calibrations.

Aftermarket tunes... yes there's some (probably too many) out there that call for 5-6ms of FIPW at WOT. Ford stock calibration? No.

Remember that Ford does have their own calibrations and does not necessarily follow along what is referenced in the International or Cummins manuals.

As I said, the pump is a fixed displacement. The pressure is adjusted by diverting oil to the heads, not the HPOP.

Again, with stock Ford calibrations, yes you will. Bone stock trucks at WOT will maintain 2700-2800 psi. This is normal.

Understand first that Ford engineers have set the calibrations on the PCM to run a specific way. Obviously there is no concern for cavitation when injection oil pressure reaches 2700-2800 psi. If so they would not have programmed the PCM as such.

Not entirely sure what you're getting at here. We're on completely different pages.

 

Yeah but I'm almost as stubborn as you......