My 2003 blew a plug today

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#16

04-14-2015, 09:25 AM

truckfella

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I set my wrench at 24 ft-lbs

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#17

04-14-2015, 10:52 AM

truckfella

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Well, things seemed to be going to smoothly. And then not so much.

I picked up a thread chaser yesterday.

I was able to run it down into the bad cylinder a full 8 or so revolutions (8 threads deep). I went a little bit at a time. First 1 revolution, withdraw, inspect for metal shavings, clean, re-grease, back in for 2 revolutions. Etc, etc. up to 8 threads deep. There were some metal shavings that came out. Not on all 8 attempts, but there were some. So I know it was cleaning things up. When it was in on the 8th attempt, it was good and solid. No slop, no wobble.

Then I attempt to put the new spark plug in, and it won't go. It just won't bite at the threads. So I run the thread chaser back in the there a couple more times. And try the spark plug again. Again, it won't go. I attempt to try the chaser again. And now it won't go in either. WTF??

I gotta take a break, go to work and get some stuff done. Clear my head a bit. Will try again tonight with the chaser. Maybe get the air ratchet out, so I can put some weight behind the chaser as I'm trying to get it started. Think up some other things perhaps.

I was hoping I could avoid the whole insert thing, but now I'm having my doubts.

By the way, I re-checked the other 9 spark plugs for torque. They were all fine exception cylinder #10. That one took hardly any force on the wrench at all to get it to come loose. They were all re-installed at 24 ft-lbs torque with anti-seize. I'll be checking them again in a few months, or maybe next spring. And I forget how much fun it is to pull spark plugs from the back 2 cylinders. I left some blood behind on the fuel rail from skinned knuckles. Good times.

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#18

04-14-2015, 11:06 AM

Wolfboro

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Quote:

Originally Posted by truckfella

I set my wrench at 24 ft-lbs

truckfella- Thanks for your response and wish you all the best .

This spark plug torque issue is never going away unfortunately . I am aware that there are 2 groups of members here ,one group is using a torque value based on Ford specs (7 to 14 Ft-Lb) . Some members within this group had also blow-outs , like "tmehrkam " who torqued to 14 ft-lb. and ended up Timeserting one plug hole (and wrote up an excellent "procedure" with photos ). Here is the link
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...th-photos.html

Second group prefer to use a higher torque level ( 20 + Ft-Lbs) , now we have a failure within that group too. The important commonality was hearing of an " exhaust leak " prior to blow out .

A search about factory recommended "spark plug torque values" for various car manufacturers provided following info .

GM -Chevy Lumina, Monte Carlo (Haynes Repair Manual 1995-1998)
3.1L engine ... 132 in-lbs
3.4 L engine .....132 in-lbs
3.8 L engine .....15-20 Ft-lbs

Toyota - Camry,Avalon, Solara and Lexus ES 300 ( Haynes 1997-2001)
Spark plugs- 13 Ft-lbs

FORD Haynes Manual 1992-2001

4.2 L engine.....11 Ft-Lbs
4.9 L engine ....15 to 20 Ft-lbs
4.6 L, 5.0 L, 5.4 L and 6.8 L .........7 to 14 Ft-Lbs.

(All presumably dry torque values without anti-seize ,since no mention of it)

I also used 14 Ft-Lb on mine last year ( with anti-seize , that may be equal to 17-20 Ft-lb dry torque) . Still confused and planning on checking them soon .

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#19

04-14-2015, 08:58 PM

Harryjt

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I have a question on the anti-seize. I under stand on the new v10 engines with the two piece spark plugs the anti-seize keeps them from breaking in the heads. On the older motors like mine a 2001. Why would you anti-seize the plugs. have people had problems with them getting stuck in the heads. I would think a dry torque would be better to help with the holding torque of the plugs. I am going to go back and recheck the torque on my plugs. the previous owner did the replacement before i bought it. he told me that he cleaned and anti-seize the new plugs and torqued them to spec. Now i starting to get nervous about them.

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#20

04-14-2015, 09:34 PM

Quad Racer

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I can see your logic on not using the anti seize on the low thread count designed heads. From what I understand there are only 4 or 5 threads holding those plugs? I had a plug blow out of an 01 E250 van that I previously owned. A shop fixed it.

I plan on checking the ones in my V10 pickup shortly to make sure they're staying put since I just changed them. I have the newer one piece late model plugs with a high thread count and one piece design in my truck. In my current 05 E350 box van I have the 2 piece plugs. Should be fun If/when I tackle those.

One thing is for sure, ignoring them can cause issues. Just take the time and check them periodically to avoid that ever so familiar "bang" pop pop pop pop. Good luck everyone.

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#21

04-15-2015, 07:38 AM

gfl

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We need an "anti unscrew" boot or some such, wouldnt think it would put too much torque on the COP to keep it tight.

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#22

04-15-2015, 01:33 PM

truckfella

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I’ve decided that I will likely pay a local shop to do the Timesert repair. I’m now coaching my son’s baseball team 4 nights a week. And my remaining “free” time is worth more to me than attempting this kind of work. I called around, and two local shops have risen to the top of my list.

Shop A: VERY clean, very friendly, very professional in appearance. The guy I talked to (once on the phone and once face to face) took quite a lot of time to explain to me exactly how they do the repair. He was happy to answer my questions along the way. He claims to have done this repair on many Ford modular engines over the years. Including another V10 just last week. The lady next to him joined in the conversation about half-way thru and said she has an Expedition with the 5.4L, and they did the repair on her ejected plug about 6 months ago. Price quote: ~$400

Shop B: clean, but not as clean as Shop A. About average cleanliness for what I would consider an average shop. The guy did answer my questions, but he seemed somewhat distracted by another guy in the office when I visited them for a face-to-face conversation. I kinda lost his attention for a few minutes. I’ve used this shop before over the years for other work (in-tank fuel pump replacement, ball joints, intake manifold gasket – all on other vehicles). He also said they have the Timesert kit on their shelf and they’ve performed this repair many times over the years. Said it would take 1 hour, maybe 2 at the most – which makes sense. Price quote: not to exceed $200.

Even though Shop A is 2x price of B, I’m inclined to go with them. I walked out of there with a definite “warm and fuzzy” feeling. They’re less than 4 miles from my house, vs about 10 miles for Shop B. I know I’m over-paying by quite a bit, but there’s something to be said for having a good feeling about the guys who will be doing this kind of work.

Anyone else here KNOWINGLY over-pay for repair work, for reasons described above?
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#23

04-15-2015, 05:06 PM

Quad Racer

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My plug that blew out of my 2001 5.4 van cost $400 to repair. That shop used a helicoil though. Since it was an old van with a ton of miles I didn't insist on the Timecert. I'm always inclined to go with the best quality I can afford. Id pick shop A as well.

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#24

04-16-2015, 06:30 AM

JWA

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Quote:

Originally Posted by truckfella

Anyone else here KNOWINGLY over-pay for repair work, for reasons described above?

Confidence in your selected shop is highly important IMHO. Experience with on-time well done repairs should also figure into your final decision. While shop cleanliness strikes us all differently some of the most well organized super clean shops turn out crap work. Other shops that scare the hell right outta ya for their messy work areas can and do turn out work quality that is astounding. End results are my own deciding factors.

Yes I have and will continue to pay a fair price for work done to my expectations and needs. If others believe I can find better for less----that's their place to test such theories.

As for anti-seize and blown plugs----its simply another tool that if misused will and does cause problems. I'm of the 23 ft/lbs torque with nickel-based anti-seize and its worked well for me--that that for what its worth.

I would also venture to say many blown plug incidents have been shortly preceded by that ticking noise so easily confused with exhaust leaks. It's almost always too late to know if after discovery a tightened loose plug would not have blown out however we do need to listen more carefully for such noises.

Just my $0.02 worth mind you.................

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#25

04-17-2015, 06:12 AM

Im50fast

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Torquing any fastener is all about the clamping force. Clamping force directly relates to stressing (literally stretching) the threads on both fasteners (in this case, the aluminum cylinder head & the steel spark plug.)

Though I have long since forgotten the specifics; I once took an entire semester in college on threaded fasteners. Thread count, pitch, depth, and type are the most important factors (along with material of course).

When one of us V10 owners wants to prolong the life of the existing heads, we obviously can't control the thread count/pitch/depth or type, so we are left with cleanliness, lubrication (anti-seize), and torque. Let's all assume we have cleanliness under control.

Since college (way back in the late 90's), I had a job with a fastener company and I once saw an excellent illustration regarding dry torque and lubed torque. Again, I don't remember the actual numbers, but the guy had a very expensive digital measuring tool that measured the clamping force of a nut and bolt squeezing two plates of steel. The (anti seize) lubed nut/bolt achieved the same clamping force with something like 1/2 the torque (of the dry fastener). It was amazing. The point of the demonstration was to teach people that torque specs are extremely important, and lube/dry instructions are EQUALLY important.

Someone may read this and think: "ok so lube and torque equals great clamping force, but lube could allow the spark plug to come loose"... That's a good question. Which I don't have an answer to.

But I'll tell you what: When I finally get to my 2007 V10's spark plugs- I literally don't know what I'll do regarding torque/lube. Pray for guidance and God's favor, clean the threads, inspect... pray more...

So if everyone has now gleaned all the knowledge I've offered, you'll be thinking "thanks for making it more complicated and not offering a solution"

You're welcome.

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#26

04-17-2015, 09:42 AM

onadraw

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Tell me why it would be stupid to use blue locktite on the plug threads to avoid blowouts.

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#27

04-17-2015, 08:03 PM

Tom A

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Quote:

Originally Posted by truckfella

Anyone else here KNOWINGLY over-pay for repair work, for reasons described above?

If it's done right the first time and you're happy with it, you didn't overpay. If the guy who costs half as much messes it up, THEN you overpaid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by onadraw

Tell me why it would be stupid to use blue locktite on the plug threads to avoid blowouts.

Because it's not heat-resistant?

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#28

04-18-2015, 01:18 AM

truckfella

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Amen to that!

The repair was performed today. Truck runs just as good as it did before, and the final bill was some $100 cheaper than originally quoted. AND I have the weekend to spend coaching my son's baseball team and enjoying the beautiful spring weather and 70 degrees. Fishing, anyone?

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