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@FordGuy85
I doubt pieces of broken guides or tensioners would be clogging your oil pickup screen. They might be in the bottom of the pan, but I don't think they would get sucked up against the screen. Deposits might, if the engine is dirty or carboned up badly, that could clog the screen and restrict oil flow. I do believe "low oil flow" / "low oil pressure" at low RPMs is the major culprit in phaser noise and/or chain slap. In fact, I believe if, and when, I replace my chains - phasers and everyting, I will ALSO replace the oil pump and clean the pickup / screen and pan.
Seems like you should NOT have chain noise after what you have done (in post # 1). I did _three_ (3) short range (500-800 mile) Oil & Filter changes back to back (rather expensive) with a heavy dose of engine flush detergent in each, followed by changing both VCT Solenoids. While the solenoids were out, I soaked the heck out of the solenoid passage ways in the heads with B-12 Chemtool and compressed air, (and then with thin OIL). I installed the new solenoids and refilled with 5W-20 Mobil1 fully synthetic. That seemed to quiet my valve train down quiet a bit. It DEFINATELY lengthened the time before she will set that pesky P0022 code. I can go a couple of weeks now with no CEL by driving her real gentle (though that's not my style). But I can still cause a P0022 DTC code anytime I want to by stomping the gas and letting off repeatedly several times. That will make my scanner gauge showing "CAMERRR" go crazy! I guess (at 204K) its time for phasers and the works on mine before too much longer.
I would do the job if I was you. It's really not that bad. Now if I was going to do the oil pump at the same time, the job would become a much bigger PITA due to the fact that you have to "drop" the frond diff and all to get the oil pan off....
I opted not to do this.
When I'm on the highway, sometimes I hear the chains rattling loudly under load like up a hill climb. I let off the gas for a second and step back onto the accelerator pedal. Chain rattle goes away with the momentary "break" in gas. I guess the tensioners are starved of oil.
After I did the big timing job, I left the old oil filter on and put cheap oil in the engine with engine flush product. Let the engine run for 5 minutes then drain. Then put in correct Motorcraft 5w-20 oil and mocraft filter. Engine is VERY clean as I change oil every 3k...
So, oil pickup screen may still be clean, but after the truck warms up the rattle goes away for the most part. I'm really at a loss with this.
I'll probably try and look at the pickup screen with my scope while doing ky next oil change. Might have to scrape off if there is old crud stuck to it. I think the previous owner changed the oil every 8-10k miles so he is the one to blame for deposits is suppose.
I needed a oil change this weekend so I decided to put a bottle of that 5 minute engine flush into the truck before the oil change. It says not to run the engine longer than 5 minutes but i ran it for 10... After I shut the truck off I let the truck sit for 3 hours before draining. (Soak time)
After the oil change, I took the truck on a test drive and the chains were still slapping. So next I stomped the pedal to the floor a couple runs and the chain slap went away. I guess the crud broke loose from the oil pickup and I'm getting moroe circulation now!
This morning I could hear a small amount of slap but nothing like before. I think I will do the engine flush again in 3k miles and let it sit overnight and maybe the problem will be completely gone.
I have heard of changing the VCT solonoids to fix rough idle but my only problem is light chain slap under load when the truck is accelerating when cold...
I've been following your thread and your symptoms (rough idle and chain noises) are similar to mine in that they have been intermittent, sorta' confusing and elusive. But do I understand your comments correctly - is the noise only (or worse) when cold??? Mine is only "occasionally" (not always) the first 5-20 seconds on startup or light load when HOT. However note that I have not yet replaced any timing components on mine (@205K mi) except VCT Solenoids - coupled with extreme cleaning efforts / blowing air through the VCT Solenoid passages and multiple engine flush treatments. Each of these efforts seem to improve or change the symptoms for a time.
Have you ever changed your VCT Solenoids? Several commenters have suggested it and it is not that expensive or big a job? I purchased mine (OEM parts) through www.FordParts.com and picked them up at a local Lincoln dealership near my home for less than $70.00 each!!
Did you ever inspect your pickup screen with your camera? Your symptoms seem like there could be restriction in the oil pickup - though I still do not believe debris from broken tensioners would be enough. Reminds me of a past personal experience with a 1993 Lincoln modular v8 that would develop a mild rod bearing knock under load - TWICE cured by dropping the pan and cleaning the pickup screen. It would become clogged with the "black granular" pumice like residue from caked oil deposits. Engine flush would do nothing to it.
Do you have an aftermarket Oil Pressure gauge installed?
Do you have a scan tool that can display live data?
I've been following your thread and your symptoms (rough idle and chain noises) are similar to mine in that they have been intermittent, sorta' confusing and elusive. But do I understand your comments correctly - is the noise only (or worse) when cold??? Mine is only "occasionally" (not always) the first 5-20 seconds on startup or light load when HOT. However note that I have not yet replaced any timing components on mine (@205K mi) except VCT Solenoids - coupled with extreme cleaning efforts / blowing air through the VCT Solenoid passages and multiple engine flush treatments. Each of these efforts seem to improve or change the symptoms for a time.
Have you ever changed your VCT Solenoids? Several commenters have suggested it and it is not that expensive or big a job? I purchased mine (OEM parts) through www.FordParts.com and picked them up at a local Lincoln dealership near my home for less than $70.00 each!!
Did you ever inspect your pickup screen with your camera? Your symptoms seem like there could be restriction in the oil pickup - though I still do not believe debris from broken tensioners would be enough. Reminds me of a past personal experience with a 1993 Lincoln modular v8 that would develop a mild rod bearing knock under load - TWICE cured by dropping the pan and cleaning the pickup screen. It would become clogged with the "black granular" pumice like residue from caked oil deposits. Engine flush would do nothing to it.
Do you have an aftermarket Oil Pressure gauge installed?
Do you have a scan tool that can display live data?
Hi, thanks for your reply.
Yes, the chains can be heard only when cold and hard acceleration. If you floor it, they slap for a minute then it goes away and the chains go silent. Makes me think they are not getting enough oil for the tensioners.
I have not changed the lolonoids yet, everything else besides the oil pump was changed.
I tried to look but could not see the oil pick up screen with a scope. Too dark...
I do not have a aftermarket oil pressure gauge. Id like one.
I do not own a scan tool that displays live data
So really my question is, do you think I should change the solonoids?
At a minimum, I would pull the VCT Solenoids - verify the Screens are NOT clogged or damaged - clean them good with solvent - and apply 12 volts to them (through a 10 - 50 ohm resistor) to verify that you can see light through the upper / lower screens as they actuate. [The PCM pulse width modulation to the VCT coil has to be able to effectively route oil flow entering the center port OUT through the upper or lower screens to properly actuate the phasers.] I also used degreasing solvent in the solenoid ports of the head and blew compressed air through them, and oiled everything generously with light oil.
An oil pressure gauge would be cheaper than almost any alternative I can suggest for you right now. I believe any oil pickup restriction that would degrade VCT operation would easily show up on a gauge. I went for a (rather expensive) MaxTow electronic analogue/digital oil pressure gauge and I enjoy the piece of mind. Running 5/20 full synthetic, pressure will hold ^ 18lbs at 650 rpm hot idle in gear with A/C on. Promptly shoots up to ^35 by 800 rpm and runs 55-60 at cruse speeds. The electronic gauge mounted nicely on the angled dash panel (photo attached) and wire was relatively easy wire in and route sensor wire through rubber grommet above accelerator peddle, along brake lines/left front frame up to the "T" fitting under the oil pressure switch.
I will be interested in the outcome if you decide to do either.
------------------_%_@#* Finally got the @*(&% picture at the END.
I reused mine - but in spite of all my care removing them, I must have warped one. The drivers side now leaks (and stinks of hot oil on the manifold). Guess at $12 - $14 each, I would now recommend that you spring for new seals.
05-03-2015, 11:09 PM
@*(&% picture at the END.
