Hey guys, I am awaiting delivery of a used New Generation Star (NGS) scan tool which I just bought on ebay. Anyone have any experience using it on a 5.8L engine (in a big 1995 Bronco) who can show me the ropes? I also have a laptop and the NGS Wave data software, so I am hoping to be able to graph and print some PIDs. Any help would be greatly appreicated.

 

I am not familiar with that unit. But I do know most EECIV Fords are not scanner friendly. They didn't "open up" the computer to the communications port, about all you can do is get the codes from the computer, which you don't even need a scanner for. For any real time data you need the old breakout box and a meter.

If this scanner is different, then let me know, I am interested.

 

Franklin2: See what subford said here:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post15226918

Participate in the "enthusiastic" discussion on whether or not FTE should host a top level scan tool forum here:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post15226950

 

I didn't know they had a data pin. I will be interesting to find out how useful that is.

 

Franklin2: As I learn about the NGS, I will post about it. (Either here on in another FTE forum, you can help me figure out which one to post in!)


BTW, look at what Y2KW57 says about the NGS here. On the OBS trucks it may have limited functionality, but you also don't need the version with XL or XL with CAN either, thereby reducing the price substantially.

 

Conanski, subford and Franklin2: Check out the Autoenginuity adapter which Tugly found:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post15227698

 

Did you put the wrong link above? I can't find it.

I was not into scanners at all until recently. I never had a vehicle that I needed one, the newest vehicle I had was a 94 Honda.

But I just bought a project 99 Tahoe. Now I need one. I did a lot of research, and the best option I could find at a reasonable cost was a old Snap-on MT2500. I was tempted by the usb adapters and programs that you can use on your computer, but I think I made the right choice.

What I have found so far is the OEM's(GM, Ford, Chrylser, etc.) are not our friends. Sure they want you to buy a vehicle, but they do not want you to work on it.

Before 96 it was the wild wild west, everyone had their own plugs and different ways to pull codes. It was a real mess. Then the gov stepped in.

Reading about it without actually using one, you tend to think aha, the gov stepped in and made a standard that everyone has to follow and it made it easier for us. Not. The government made some rules, but only a few. The car makers followed these rules to the letter, and did the minimum required to get them off their backs. Yes you can plug in a "OBDII" code reader and read generic codes. But when they could, the OEM's put everything else on custom pins on the connector, there is no standard for all this other stuff.

You can see this when looking at and using the MT2500. Sure you have a standard OBDII plug, but you need "personality keys". These keys re-wire the OBDII plug on the MT2500 so it can read all the other stuff on the vehicle, such as ABS, 4x4, transmission, and other computers on the vehicle. The government did not mandate a standard for all this other stuff, so they took the opportunity to make it difficult to get this info for the regular person.

My scanner goes to 1999, and I think I can read the "generic" codes on later vehicles with the correct key, but I can't get on one of the CAN networked cars and trucks, so I can't comment on that. But I see they still have it locked away somehow, there is always the more expensive readers/scanners that can read "enhanced codes". These must be the non-standard codes they are still trying to hide and make it difficult for the average person to read.

The OEM's will never get it. They think they are protecting their business and the ability to make money repairing their vehicles. What they don't seem to understand, the majority of people will still take their cars to the dealer, they don't know about all this stuff and don't care about it, they just want their car fixed. The enthusiast who wants to read these codes and work on/modify their vehicle are few in comparison, but are the ones that will give them the most advertising and the most customer satisfaction and brand loyalty.

 

Sorry wrong link. See post #29 in this thread. Tugly discusses an adapter for AE for our OBS trucks:


https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...erators-2.html

 

I looked at the link. It looks like you can do some things with the Ford system on 95-up vehicles. Of course you have to buy the "Ford" ehanced software package from autoenguity people.

94-down must still be stuck with not many options.

 

Franklin2: I bought the Rotunda OEM Ford New Generation Star scan tool for that reason. You may still be able to see what I bought here, but remember without the XL and XL with CAN, the unit is more like $400-$500 on ebay for a nice not abused one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Hickok-NGS-XL-Generation-Star-Tester-FREE-SHIPPING-/331509635982?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=LfsTCyfi1%252FqNT7uaFIOIeA2WjOk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
Here's one for $499 or best offer:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Rotunda-NGS-New-Generation-Star-Tester-007-00500-/261828350856?hash=item3cf62f9388&item=261828350856&vxp=mtr
I notice that the card included is only for 1999 and later. Additional cards can be purchased on ebay or at Nu-Di Corp:

NGS

I just received mine today, so I haven't used it yet. After I get familiar with it I will post my experience, or more likely ask for help from the more experienced.

 

I know that I am partial to the AE w/Ford Enhanced as we have been using it for a number of years on OBD-II vehicles.


I feel that it is important to have a scan tool that has "bidirectional" capability. In other words the tool can issue commands to the PCM. An example is, say the driver's power window stops working. You can issue a command through the scan tool to the PCM to lower the driver's window. If the window lowers you know the window motor and its power supply is good and that the issue is in the control side of the circuit.


One thing to be aware of is that AE has lotsa capability, but the vehicle has to also have the corresponding capability. As an example, I had a 2000 Town Car come in with a misfire on cyl #5. We moved the plug/coil/boot to different cylinders and still had the misfire on #5. Fired up AE and it had the capability of displaying the injector circuit resistance.
It showed #5 injector circuit had high resistance. Swapped the injector with another cylinder. Scan tool still said injector circuit #5 was high. Pulled the PCM plug and found a corroded pin for injector #5. Problem solved!


But this injector resistance function was not available on a 2000 Expedition as its PCM didn't support that function. So just because AE has the capability it may not be available when connected to your vehicle.


Keep up the good work.

 

Tim, if your scantool kit came with the EECIV connector harness, then you are golden. You will have all the capability that the Ford dealer had in 1995 when the vehicle was new. The NGS had more bidirectional capability than AE. Ford wrote the software for the vehicle and the NGS scantool. There is nothing the AE can command that that the NGS can't command. There are some features that the NGS can command that the AE can't though. Congrats on your purchase.

 

There is no way to use AE with an pre-OBDII vehicle.

It sounds like you want somebody to hold your hand with everything. Why not try it first and learn?

 

Hey guys! I got the EEC-IV connector harness!!! It's referred to in the NGS XL with CAN User Guide as a "STAR/DCL Adapter (5pin)"

Now I have to start my contact cleaner/enhancer test because the pins in the Data Link Connector (DLC) are friggin' corroded!

 

Well I went on safari with the 1995 Bronco armed with the NGS XL scan tool with the standard VIM1 installed this evening.

How friggin' easy is it? You put in the Black Diagnostic card for your vehicle age (ver. 17.2 for 1999 and older), plug the appropriate cord into the DLC ("Diagnostic Link Connection" - i.e., the connector for OBD which is pre-OBDII), use the dial to select the desired test to run (I ran KOEO, KOER, Cyl. Contribution, and Timing) and hit "Start" and then the NGS tells you to turn the ignition off then turn it to on (for KOEO) or tells you to the turn the ignition off then to start the ignition (for KOER, Cyl. Contr., and Timing and for those, the NGS tells you to "Perform a Brief WOT"). As you will see below, I should have but did not let the engine warm up prior to the test.

The 1995 Bronco passed the KOEO. Although the NGS seemed to perform the Cyl. Contr. test, I am going to have to read the user manual, because I wasn't able to get it to display results. And the KOER came up with the following codes for which I dialed up in the Code Library in NGS unit:

116 "ECT > OR < EXPECTED"
536 "BOO CKT FAIL, NOT ACTUATED KOER"
632 "TCS DID NOT CHANGE STATE"

Of course I have no friggin' clue what any of that means, but hey it was my first evening with the tool and I have the Ford Diagnostic Manual and I can read so I can probably figure out what they mean.*

Then for a finale, I went to the menu to monitor PIDs and put an asterisk next to the two that I thought might be appropriate to monitor and came up with the following values:

ECT = 0.68v
and
TCS = OFF

Then I pushed the button to store this data, and then I pushed the button to graph the data and it showed me a little screen with ECT numerical voltage values fluctuating +-.01 over time which is the bottom of the screen. I didn't push the print button because I didn't want to carry my big a$$ laser printer out to the truck and I don't know if it even has a serial port (but I have a never used portable color Canon printer - remember those about the size of a small shoe box? which I might adapt).

So in summary, I hooked up the NGS, didn't get any sparks, and thankfully there was no "the fun ends when the magic smoke disappears" moment.

But I know that the Bronco is not my diesel, and I know that the important stuff is monitoring and graphing PIDs and trying to capture them when an intermittant problem occurs. But the good news is that with time, study and experience and handholding from others, I think I will be able to figure this NGS thing out.

So, the safari begins...


* A quick search on the internet reveals that: 116 Engine Coolant Temp (ECT) sensor circuit voltage high or low; 632 Transmission Control Switch (TCS) circuit did not change state during KOER (maybe the book tells me to do that during the KOER test); and 536 Brake On/Off (BOO) circuit failure/not actuated during KOER (maybe the book also tells me to do that during the KOER test)