I have a serious question for a Ford Transit Service Tech. I would like to install a 3.2L Duratorq diesel in my 48 F1 pickup project. The question is:

Does the 3.2L diesel engine computer need to have input from the anti-lock brake system (ABS) wheel speed sensors to operate correctly?

This question comes from looking at the Mercedes van I-5 diesel. This van uses an integrated electronic service bus with inputs from the ABS to feed the engine computer for an engine over speed protection function. I understand that all Transit vans are being sold with ABS systems. I cannot install ABS brakes on my F1 project without additional expense and serious hardware changes. Therefore, if the 3.2L diesel engine computer needs input from the ABS for any reason, I can’t use this engine for my project. What do you guys know?

Thanks ahead of time for your input and help.

Phil

 

I'll ask my guys tomorrow but I'll bet that's above the general techs level. They focus on repairing stock, not modifications.

While I'm no expert in automotive computers, I'd imagine a ghost signel could be sent that matched a status quo for such systems. It seems any input/output system just needs the proper input to ignore a limp mode.

Another option would be to get a Euro based computer. I believe they have much more flexibility on programming. An F1 would not have to be concerned with emissions regs so you could run a pretty modified computer. It's a pretty nice mil in the Transit, I'll be excited to see your project.

 

Frantz,
Thanks for the help.

Ask your guys about the stock installation, if the wheel sensors have any kind of input to the engine computer. That's the sticking point with me.

Like I said earlier, the Mercedes uses an integrated electronic bus that the computer takes its inputs from and the ABS system feeds. I've seen wiring diagrams for this van and the engine computer cannot run without the input from ABS. It's for an engine over speed control function.

Since most of these Fords are going into fleet service, I was just concerned that Ford had designed a similar function for this van because all of the vans are ABS equipped.

I appreciate your help. I can handle the swap into my truck, its just if the engine and computer are suitable for me to use without an ABS system. They should know what inputs are required for the engine computer and if the ABS system has any inputs.

Phil

 

Okay, I spoke with the diesel techs and they said their bigger concern was with the exhaust gas sensors etc. They said the stock PCM would likely go into limp mode very quickly if you didn't design the emissions system to be stock. They suggested finding an aftermarket or programmed PCM that ignored these. They weren't aware of any over-speed protection linked to ABS, but didn't know for sure.

I don't know if the motor is used anywhere in equipment but that might be an easy computer to ****** and apply for your rig.

 

Frantz,
Thanks for the input. I was planning on using the stock exhaust gas sensors and canisters like the DPF, etc. The DMV folks will give me less grief that way. I may have to have the PCM reprogrammed anyway. If they are not aware of any over-speed protection linked to ABS it probably isn't there.

This engine is only used in North American Transit vans, so far. It is built in South Africa, and the engine is installed in a variety of non-North American vehicles like the Ranger pickup, that is no longer available in the US.

Tell your diesel techs a great big Thank You.

Now, I'll go see if Ford will sell me a complete engine without a VIN number or a core.

Phil

 

Frantz,
I found a 2015 Transit Owners Manual online. On page 148, they say there is an Engine Speed Limiter and a Vehicle Speed Limiter. This the type of functions I was concerned about. The Vehicle Speed Limiter would probably take input from the ABS system wheel speed sensors.

Please ask your guys what they know about this Vehicle Speed Limiter. Thanks.

Phil

 

The answer to your question is YES... if you want it to operate correctly. The Transit is no different than any other modern motor vehicle and if your intention is to repower another vehicle by swapping over the entire engine, transmission and aftertreatment system as is then you will have issues without Vehicle speed information.

 

Thanks Ford Doctor. Once I found the owners manual, I knew that speed info was required.

Could the computer be re-programmed to eliminate those two functions by a competent re-programmer?

From Ford Parts on-line, I saw for the Transit the speed sensor is taken off the engine and also from the wheel speed sensors. Is this correct? Are there others I haven't found yet?

Thanks for your input and help.

 

I think its possible to program the PCM but I don't know everything that the module needs vehicle speed data for. If you are using an engine AND transmission pair then vehicle speed information is a MUST. The transmission Ford uses with that engine will have an output shaft speed sensor though... You would need to be REALLY well versed in automotive control modules and programming to do this. I am thinking that if the hardware can accommodate it, you need to find the right guy. Problem is, I have no idea if this is actually possible. Just speculation based on what I do know.

Good Luck with the project!

 

Service techs are really not the ones to go to, they are trained to find failed parts and replace, not modify stuff. IMO I'd hunt down what signel the computer is expecting and then find a way to replicate it. If you're lucky it's a constant input and when out of desired range thats when it triggers limp mode.

 

Ford Doctor,
I had planned on using the engine and transmission. There is an engine computer listed on Ford Parts; however, I do not find a separate transmission controller/computer as is needed in some vehicles.

So why is the vehicle speed a must as an input if using the engine and transmission together?

As far as re-programming the computer, there are several companies out there that do this already, the trick is finding the company that can do it correctly. My brother-in-law had a GM V-6 computer re-programmed so they could put the V-6 in a Jeep.

Thanks for the input.

Philip

 

The 2015 Transit with the 3.2L Diesel DOES have separate PCM and TCM, both located under the hood.



Vehicle Speed Data is used for several items - I realize many of which you may not be utilizing however the PCM and the TCM will still be requiring the data and looking for it. Such functions include but likely not limited to (as these are all I can find documented in the Manuals)

• Gauge Operation
• Vehicle Speed Limiter
• Brake Over Accelerator protection
• Cruise Control
• Transmission Shifting and timing
• Charging System (3.5L and 3.7L only)

Now that I am really looking onto this I don't think that you really have any idea how complex these vehicle systems are and the challenges you face with this project. Aside from the physical/mechanical aspect, the electrical/electronic and networking part of it is going to be an even bigger challenge. Not only do you need to have the PCM and the TCM working you will need to bring over the Battery Junction Box, The Smart Junction Box (body controller) Glow Plug Controller, BOTH NoX modules, the entire SCR system and controller, electric fuel pump, restraints control module, Instrument cluster and probably one or two others.

I am not saying this project is impossible but the task is going to be monumental in either getting it all to work or modifying it so that it can work with eliminating some of it.

 

Ford Doctor,
Thank you very much for your time and research into this for me. This is the very reason that I started this thread, was to understand the very complexity of the problem. Looking at Ford Parts showed me that I would have to bring over the fuel level/pump assembly and controller to be able to feed the fuel at the correct flow rate and pressure. I knew that the emissions systems, the SCR and the NOX, were going to be a challenge as well. Where it gets to be most challenging would be figuring out what can be eliminated and how to re-program things to make it run. The more info about potential problems in a swap of this nature, the better decisions you can make. As a mechanical engineer, I understand also that a wiring diagram manual, is essential to analyze this problem before buying any hardware and it may eventually may force me to use a different drive train.

I am rethinking this one. I want to put a diesel in my 48 F1, but the government and their myriad of controlling regulations is stifling to those of us who want to be innovative.

Thanks again.
Philip