So, is it ICP or IPR? Very detailed observations inside...
#1
03-18-2015, 08:10 AM
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So, is it ICP or IPR? Very detailed observations inside...
Hey guys- the thread title is my attempt at being optimistic about what's going on with my beloved '04 F-250- 
. I'm the original owner and have been through some repairs over the years, but I'm a little nervous about this one as it's come up at a not-so-great time for me (I'm dealing with an ugly divorce right now and as is always the case with these things, money isn't exactly plentiful right now). I'm hoping you guys can dial me in on what's going on here.
Okay, so here's the deal. Truck is an '04 with the '03 style motor (ICP at back of motor). I've owned it since new and it has about 140k on it. Over the years I've experienced some of the more common ailments these trucks are known for, and I've replaced a few injectors along the way and about 4 years ago installed a full BulletproofDiesel.com kit when my oil cooler failed. Also, even though I'm suspecting one of them might be my current issue, about 4 years ago I also replaced an ICP sensor and IPR valve. In short, although I am far from a 6.0 guru I've "been around the block" as far as these trucks go. It shouldn't affect your diagnosis help today, but the truck also has an SCT Tuner running Gearhead Matt's SRL tune and the truck is also equipped with an Edge Insight. When I Bulletproofed it, I installed their new EGR cooler in case emissions testing ever comes back but the EGR is disabled via the SCT Tuner.
So here's what's going on and has me worried about repair costs. Recently I've noticed that my truck feels a little down on power- mostly noticeable when trying to use more than about half to two-thirds throttle. Truck starts and runs fine, no codes, etc. The only other two things going on with the truck right now are that I feel something that in the past has turned out to be an injector in the early stages of failure- the typical slight studder/misfire feeling when the oil temp is cold, and something I'm sure is totally unrelated to my loss of power- my fuel gauge intermittently reads 'E' while driving which I'm assuming is a fuel tank sender going south. The suspected injector studder was mostly noticeable in our cold winter weather and is just barely detectable in the mornings now until my oil temp gets to about 130. Just mentioning both of these in case they end up being clues to you guys.
So as I said above I have an Edge Insight. When I first noticed the loss of power on harder acceleration I started monitoring various parameters and the ICP readings caught my eye. In the past when I've monitored it at times, I noticed that the voltage rises steadily with more throttle input. Since this loss of power issue has come up I've noticed that ICP will be at about 0.7 or 0.8 at idle and will rise to a max of about 2.4 as I accelerate until I apply anything past about two-thirds throttle- at that point ICP voltage drops sharply all the way down to about 1.2 volts and stays there- even under full throttle and that's when you can tell the truck is down on power although boost still looks good. When I watch that happen on the Edge Insight, the voltage drop starts happening right as I feel the loss of power (which makes mechanical sense). If I back the throttle down to 1/2 or less the voltage goes back up and truck power feels normal for that amount of throttle. I will also say that, at least from my past recollection of looking at ICP voltage when there wasn't an issue, I do believe that the voltage is not getting as high as it should/used to. I'm seeing a max of about 2.4 or so when under moderate throttle and the truck still feels "normal" in terms of power. As I said, under part throttle you'd never know there was a power issue- it's only under harder acceleration that you can tell the truck is down on power and that is when the ICP voltage is noticeably low.
Truck has no codes, boost is hitting about 25 under full throttle and like I said, other than being down on power under harder acceleration there are no other symptoms. In fact, since I rarely hit the throttle hard these days I'm wondering how long this has been going on undetected by me. Truck is on the original FICM (Always reading 48.0 or 48.5 on the Insight) and my Sears Platinum batteries are less than a year old. The only diagnostic tools I have at my disposal are the Insight and my SCT Tuner. I've got a fairly good understanding of how this oil & fuel injection system works, although I don't fully understand ICP- not sure if it simply provides a reading for the oil system pressure being used to run the injectors or if it actually controls that pressure like the IPR.
Based on my basic understanding of the system, I'm thinking I could have a failure of the ICP sensor, the IPR or... (god no, don't need this right now) maybe an HPOP? I'm on the original HPOP, and do want to point out that when I did the Bulletproof kit 4 years ago we did find the oil screen down at the oil cooler was torn as I hear they like to do. And when I did the IPR about 4 years ago (due to the truck surging at idle and wanting to move forward on its own), the little screen on it was also pushed in and damaged. If you are familiar with the Bulletproof kit, you'll know that the billet manifold that replaces the oil cooler assembly has a very beefy metal screen that is not supposed to fail again. ICP was changed immediately prior to the IPR while I was chasing the at-idle surge and still learning what each part plays in the operation of the truck. What I can't remember is if I did the IPR before or after the Bulletproof kit. Those items were all done around the same 6 month period, just can't remember which came first.
Sorry this is so lengthy, but I wanted to try and answer every possible question you might have and provide every detail I could think of. I'm really hoping you guys can point me in the right direction so I can get this squared away as efficiently and inexpensively as possible. Like I said, I'm in an ugly divorce battle fighting for survival right now and money is tight. I want to thank you all in advance for your assistance- this site has been invaluable to me over the years, and I plan on keeping this truck for a very long time. I bought it in October 2003 and it's been relatively good to me.
. I'm the original owner and have been through some repairs over the years, but I'm a little nervous about this one as it's come up at a not-so-great time for me (I'm dealing with an ugly divorce right now and as is always the case with these things, money isn't exactly plentiful right now). I'm hoping you guys can dial me in on what's going on here. Okay, so here's the deal. Truck is an '04 with the '03 style motor (ICP at back of motor). I've owned it since new and it has about 140k on it. Over the years I've experienced some of the more common ailments these trucks are known for, and I've replaced a few injectors along the way and about 4 years ago installed a full BulletproofDiesel.com kit when my oil cooler failed. Also, even though I'm suspecting one of them might be my current issue, about 4 years ago I also replaced an ICP sensor and IPR valve. In short, although I am far from a 6.0 guru I've "been around the block" as far as these trucks go. It shouldn't affect your diagnosis help today, but the truck also has an SCT Tuner running Gearhead Matt's SRL tune and the truck is also equipped with an Edge Insight. When I Bulletproofed it, I installed their new EGR cooler in case emissions testing ever comes back but the EGR is disabled via the SCT Tuner.
So here's what's going on and has me worried about repair costs. Recently I've noticed that my truck feels a little down on power- mostly noticeable when trying to use more than about half to two-thirds throttle. Truck starts and runs fine, no codes, etc. The only other two things going on with the truck right now are that I feel something that in the past has turned out to be an injector in the early stages of failure- the typical slight studder/misfire feeling when the oil temp is cold, and something I'm sure is totally unrelated to my loss of power- my fuel gauge intermittently reads 'E' while driving which I'm assuming is a fuel tank sender going south. The suspected injector studder was mostly noticeable in our cold winter weather and is just barely detectable in the mornings now until my oil temp gets to about 130. Just mentioning both of these in case they end up being clues to you guys.
So as I said above I have an Edge Insight. When I first noticed the loss of power on harder acceleration I started monitoring various parameters and the ICP readings caught my eye. In the past when I've monitored it at times, I noticed that the voltage rises steadily with more throttle input. Since this loss of power issue has come up I've noticed that ICP will be at about 0.7 or 0.8 at idle and will rise to a max of about 2.4 as I accelerate until I apply anything past about two-thirds throttle- at that point ICP voltage drops sharply all the way down to about 1.2 volts and stays there- even under full throttle and that's when you can tell the truck is down on power although boost still looks good. When I watch that happen on the Edge Insight, the voltage drop starts happening right as I feel the loss of power (which makes mechanical sense). If I back the throttle down to 1/2 or less the voltage goes back up and truck power feels normal for that amount of throttle. I will also say that, at least from my past recollection of looking at ICP voltage when there wasn't an issue, I do believe that the voltage is not getting as high as it should/used to. I'm seeing a max of about 2.4 or so when under moderate throttle and the truck still feels "normal" in terms of power. As I said, under part throttle you'd never know there was a power issue- it's only under harder acceleration that you can tell the truck is down on power and that is when the ICP voltage is noticeably low.
Truck has no codes, boost is hitting about 25 under full throttle and like I said, other than being down on power under harder acceleration there are no other symptoms. In fact, since I rarely hit the throttle hard these days I'm wondering how long this has been going on undetected by me. Truck is on the original FICM (Always reading 48.0 or 48.5 on the Insight) and my Sears Platinum batteries are less than a year old. The only diagnostic tools I have at my disposal are the Insight and my SCT Tuner. I've got a fairly good understanding of how this oil & fuel injection system works, although I don't fully understand ICP- not sure if it simply provides a reading for the oil system pressure being used to run the injectors or if it actually controls that pressure like the IPR.
Based on my basic understanding of the system, I'm thinking I could have a failure of the ICP sensor, the IPR or... (god no, don't need this right now) maybe an HPOP? I'm on the original HPOP, and do want to point out that when I did the Bulletproof kit 4 years ago we did find the oil screen down at the oil cooler was torn as I hear they like to do. And when I did the IPR about 4 years ago (due to the truck surging at idle and wanting to move forward on its own), the little screen on it was also pushed in and damaged. If you are familiar with the Bulletproof kit, you'll know that the billet manifold that replaces the oil cooler assembly has a very beefy metal screen that is not supposed to fail again. ICP was changed immediately prior to the IPR while I was chasing the at-idle surge and still learning what each part plays in the operation of the truck. What I can't remember is if I did the IPR before or after the Bulletproof kit. Those items were all done around the same 6 month period, just can't remember which came first.
Sorry this is so lengthy, but I wanted to try and answer every possible question you might have and provide every detail I could think of. I'm really hoping you guys can point me in the right direction so I can get this squared away as efficiently and inexpensively as possible. Like I said, I'm in an ugly divorce battle fighting for survival right now and money is tight. I want to thank you all in advance for your assistance- this site has been invaluable to me over the years, and I plan on keeping this truck for a very long time. I bought it in October 2003 and it's been relatively good to me.
#2
03-18-2015, 08:42 AM
Postmaster
Hey guys- the thread title is my attempt at being optimistic about what's going on with my beloved '04 F-250- . I'm the original owner and have been through some repairs over the years, but I'm a little nervous about this one as it's come up at a not-so-great time for me (I'm dealing with an ugly divorce right now and as is always the case with these things, money isn't exactly plentiful right now). I'm hoping you guys can dial me in on what's going on here.
Okay, so here's the deal. Truck is an '04 with the '03 style motor (ICP at back of motor). I've owned it since new and it has about 140k on it. Over the years I've experienced some of the more common ailments these trucks are known for, and I've replaced a few injectors along the way and about 4 years ago installed a full BulletproofDiesel.com kit when my oil cooler failed. Also, even though I'm suspecting one of them might be my current issue, about 4 years ago I also replaced an ICP sensor and IPR valve. In short, although I am far from a 6.0 guru I've "been around the block" as far as these trucks go. It shouldn't affect your diagnosis help today, but the truck also has an SCT Tuner running Gearhead Matt's SRL tune and the truck is also equipped with an Edge Insight. When I Bulletproofed it, I installed their new EGR cooler in case emissions testing ever comes back but the EGR is disabled via the SCT Tuner.
So here's what's going on and has me worried about repair costs. Recently I've noticed that my truck feels a little down on power- mostly noticeable when trying to use more than about half to two-thirds throttle. Truck starts and runs fine, no codes, etc. The only other two things going on with the truck right now are that I feel something that in the past has turned out to be an injector in the early stages of failure- the typical slight studder/misfire feeling when the oil temp is cold, and something I'm sure is totally unrelated to my loss of power- my fuel gauge intermittently reads 'E' while driving which I'm assuming is a fuel tank sender going south. The suspected injector studder was mostly noticeable in our cold winter weather and is just barely detectable in the mornings now until my oil temp gets to about 130. Just mentioning both of these in case they end up being clues to you guys.
So as I said above I have an Edge Insight. When I first noticed the loss of power on harder acceleration I started monitoring various parameters and the ICP readings caught my eye. In the past when I've monitored it at times, I noticed that the voltage rises steadily with more throttle input. Since this loss of power issue has come up I've noticed that ICP will be at about 0.7 or 0.8 at idle and will rise to a max of about 2.4 as I accelerate until I apply anything past about two-thirds throttle- at that point ICP voltage drops sharply all the way down to about 1.2 volts and stays there- even under full throttle and that's when you can tell the truck is down on power although boost still looks good. When I watch that happen on the Edge Insight, the voltage drop starts happening right as I feel the loss of power (which makes mechanical sense). If I back the throttle down to 1/2 or less the voltage goes back up and truck power feels normal for that amount of throttle. I will also say that, at least from my past recollection of looking at ICP voltage when there wasn't an issue, I do believe that the voltage is not getting as high as it should/used to. I'm seeing a max of about 2.4 or so when under moderate throttle and the truck still feels "normal" in terms of power. As I said, under part throttle you'd never know there was a power issue- it's only under harder acceleration that you can tell the truck is down on power and that is when the ICP voltage is noticeably low.
Truck has no codes, boost is hitting about 25 under full throttle and like I said, other than being down on power under harder acceleration there are no other symptoms. In fact, since I rarely hit the throttle hard these days I'm wondering how long this has been going on undetected by me. Truck is on the original FICM (Always reading 48.0 or 48.5 on the Insight) and my Sears Platinum batteries are less than a year old. The only diagnostic tools I have at my disposal are the Insight and my SCT Tuner. I've got a fairly good understanding of how this oil & fuel injection system works, although I don't fully understand ICP- not sure if it simply provides a reading for the oil system pressure being used to run the injectors or if it actually controls that pressure like the IPR.
Based on my basic understanding of the system, I'm thinking I could have a failure of the ICP sensor, the IPR or... (god no, don't need this right now) maybe an HPOP? I'm on the original HPOP, and do want to point out that when I did the Bulletproof kit 4 years ago we did find the oil screen down at the oil cooler was torn as I hear they like to do. And when I did the IPR about 4 years ago (due to the truck surging at idle and wanting to move forward on its own), the little screen on it was also pushed in and damaged. If you are familiar with the Bulletproof kit, you'll know that the billet manifold that replaces the oil cooler assembly has a very beefy metal screen that is not supposed to fail again. ICP was changed immediately prior to the IPR while I was chasing the at-idle surge and still learning what each part plays in the operation of the truck. What I can't remember is if I did the IPR before or after the Bulletproof kit. Those items were all done around the same 6 month period, just can't remember which came first.
Sorry this is so lengthy, but I wanted to try and answer every possible question you might have and provide every detail I could think of. I'm really hoping you guys can point me in the right direction so I can get this squared away as efficiently and inexpensively as possible. Like I said, I'm in an ugly divorce battle fighting for survival right now and money is tight. I want to thank you all in advance for your assistance- this site has been invaluable to me over the years, and I plan on keeping this truck for a very long time. I bought it in October 2003 and it's been relatively good to me.
. I'm the original owner and have been through some repairs over the years, but I'm a little nervous about this one as it's come up at a not-so-great time for me (I'm dealing with an ugly divorce right now and as is always the case with these things, money isn't exactly plentiful right now). I'm hoping you guys can dial me in on what's going on here. Okay, so here's the deal. Truck is an '04 with the '03 style motor (ICP at back of motor). I've owned it since new and it has about 140k on it. Over the years I've experienced some of the more common ailments these trucks are known for, and I've replaced a few injectors along the way and about 4 years ago installed a full BulletproofDiesel.com kit when my oil cooler failed. Also, even though I'm suspecting one of them might be my current issue, about 4 years ago I also replaced an ICP sensor and IPR valve. In short, although I am far from a 6.0 guru I've "been around the block" as far as these trucks go. It shouldn't affect your diagnosis help today, but the truck also has an SCT Tuner running Gearhead Matt's SRL tune and the truck is also equipped with an Edge Insight. When I Bulletproofed it, I installed their new EGR cooler in case emissions testing ever comes back but the EGR is disabled via the SCT Tuner.
So here's what's going on and has me worried about repair costs. Recently I've noticed that my truck feels a little down on power- mostly noticeable when trying to use more than about half to two-thirds throttle. Truck starts and runs fine, no codes, etc. The only other two things going on with the truck right now are that I feel something that in the past has turned out to be an injector in the early stages of failure- the typical slight studder/misfire feeling when the oil temp is cold, and something I'm sure is totally unrelated to my loss of power- my fuel gauge intermittently reads 'E' while driving which I'm assuming is a fuel tank sender going south. The suspected injector studder was mostly noticeable in our cold winter weather and is just barely detectable in the mornings now until my oil temp gets to about 130. Just mentioning both of these in case they end up being clues to you guys.
So as I said above I have an Edge Insight. When I first noticed the loss of power on harder acceleration I started monitoring various parameters and the ICP readings caught my eye. In the past when I've monitored it at times, I noticed that the voltage rises steadily with more throttle input. Since this loss of power issue has come up I've noticed that ICP will be at about 0.7 or 0.8 at idle and will rise to a max of about 2.4 as I accelerate until I apply anything past about two-thirds throttle- at that point ICP voltage drops sharply all the way down to about 1.2 volts and stays there- even under full throttle and that's when you can tell the truck is down on power although boost still looks good. When I watch that happen on the Edge Insight, the voltage drop starts happening right as I feel the loss of power (which makes mechanical sense). If I back the throttle down to 1/2 or less the voltage goes back up and truck power feels normal for that amount of throttle. I will also say that, at least from my past recollection of looking at ICP voltage when there wasn't an issue, I do believe that the voltage is not getting as high as it should/used to. I'm seeing a max of about 2.4 or so when under moderate throttle and the truck still feels "normal" in terms of power. As I said, under part throttle you'd never know there was a power issue- it's only under harder acceleration that you can tell the truck is down on power and that is when the ICP voltage is noticeably low.
Truck has no codes, boost is hitting about 25 under full throttle and like I said, other than being down on power under harder acceleration there are no other symptoms. In fact, since I rarely hit the throttle hard these days I'm wondering how long this has been going on undetected by me. Truck is on the original FICM (Always reading 48.0 or 48.5 on the Insight) and my Sears Platinum batteries are less than a year old. The only diagnostic tools I have at my disposal are the Insight and my SCT Tuner. I've got a fairly good understanding of how this oil & fuel injection system works, although I don't fully understand ICP- not sure if it simply provides a reading for the oil system pressure being used to run the injectors or if it actually controls that pressure like the IPR.
Based on my basic understanding of the system, I'm thinking I could have a failure of the ICP sensor, the IPR or... (god no, don't need this right now) maybe an HPOP? I'm on the original HPOP, and do want to point out that when I did the Bulletproof kit 4 years ago we did find the oil screen down at the oil cooler was torn as I hear they like to do. And when I did the IPR about 4 years ago (due to the truck surging at idle and wanting to move forward on its own), the little screen on it was also pushed in and damaged. If you are familiar with the Bulletproof kit, you'll know that the billet manifold that replaces the oil cooler assembly has a very beefy metal screen that is not supposed to fail again. ICP was changed immediately prior to the IPR while I was chasing the at-idle surge and still learning what each part plays in the operation of the truck. What I can't remember is if I did the IPR before or after the Bulletproof kit. Those items were all done around the same 6 month period, just can't remember which came first.
Sorry this is so lengthy, but I wanted to try and answer every possible question you might have and provide every detail I could think of. I'm really hoping you guys can point me in the right direction so I can get this squared away as efficiently and inexpensively as possible. Like I said, I'm in an ugly divorce battle fighting for survival right now and money is tight. I want to thank you all in advance for your assistance- this site has been invaluable to me over the years, and I plan on keeping this truck for a very long time. I bought it in October 2003 and it's been relatively good to me.
#3
03-18-2015, 08:51 AM
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Also, is it possible a bad IPR might be sticking and not allowing HP oil to get high enough to show proper ICP voltages under harder acceleration?
#4
03-18-2015, 09:09 AM
Postmaster
I'm at work so all I have to read is the Insight right now- ran outside and KOEO ICP is fluctuating between 0.1 and 0.2 on the Insight since it only reads down to a tenth of a volt. Checked and the Insight doesn't read IPR %- do you know if my SCT does?
Also, is it possible a bad IPR might be sticking and not allowing HP oil to get high enough to show proper ICP voltages under harder acceleration?
Also, is it possible a bad IPR might be sticking and not allowing HP oil to get high enough to show proper ICP voltages under harder acceleration?
#5
03-18-2015, 10:11 AM
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The insight will read IPR but you will need to go to their website and download the software to update your insight. After the update you will have a new PID called INJ main power that will be in alarm, just disable the alarm for that PID and ignore it as it was not intended to be included in the update.
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03-18-2015, 10:33 AM
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03-18-2015, 11:35 AM
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#8
03-18-2015, 12:16 PM
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The idle number looks good, the test will be to watch that number when you are experiencing power loss, when this happens make note of the ICP pressure, IPR% and engine RPM's.
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03-18-2015, 12:26 PM
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Thanks- I'll look at those numbers when I leave work shortly. REALLY hoping to not have a HPOP issue- do my symptoms sound at all like they could be ICP or IPR related?
#10
03-18-2015, 01:23 PM
Check those readings like Brett says
GET TRUCK HOT AND TEST IT IN Prk at KOEO AND IDLE AND 2500RPM ALL IN PARK
GET 3readings for each sensor
ICPV
ICP
IPR%
Rpm
Your numbers falling off when it peaks on power is about how mine was when my HPOP WENT Down
I had a good thread going on it lots of good info and even a fix for a DIY HPOP THAT MAY WORK depending what way the pump failed if it's even the HPOP
GET TRUCK HOT AND TEST IT IN Prk at KOEO AND IDLE AND 2500RPM ALL IN PARK
GET 3readings for each sensor
ICPV
ICP
IPR%
Rpm
Your numbers falling off when it peaks on power is about how mine was when my HPOP WENT Down
I had a good thread going on it lots of good info and even a fix for a DIY HPOP THAT MAY WORK depending what way the pump failed if it's even the HPOP
#12
03-18-2015, 01:33 PM
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Thanks for the input guys- I will update this thread with some #'s ASAP. I've been searching and reading here online all day, freaked about needing an HPOP. I've come across a few stories, including yours BLADE35, that have me fearing the worst. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I'm thinking my next thread might be about looking for the best deal on a HPOP. 
#13
03-18-2015, 02:55 PM
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Ok, so I'm driving right now and noticing when I floor it and feel the power loss in seeing IPR go to 95% and ICP pressure drop to and hold around 850. As soon as I back the throttle down to half or so, the pressures go up into the 1500-2000 psi range.
HPOP? I've got the other numbers you guys asked for but can't type them until I stop somewhere.
HPOP? I've got the other numbers you guys asked for but can't type them until I stop somewhere.
#14
03-18-2015, 03:02 PM
Postmaster
Ok, so I'm driving right now and noticing when I floor it and feel the power loss in seeing IPR go to 95% and ICP pressure drop to and hold around 850. As soon as I back the throttle down to half or so, the pressures go up into the 1500-2000 psi range.
HPOP? I've got the other numbers you guys asked for but can't type them until I stop somewhere.
HPOP? I've got the other numbers you guys asked for but can't type them until I stop somewhere.
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