Hey there FTE,

I currently own a 1967 F100 4x4. My truck originally left the factory with a FE 352. As of rite now I have a FE 360 which I obtained from a 1974 F100 4x4 donor truck. I am doing my best to bring this truck back exactly how it was in 1967. My initial thought was to build a completely stock FE 352. The more I contemplated the fact that I did no longer own the original block, I figured having a stock FE 352 wouldn't bring any more value than having a mild performance FE 390. As much as I want to get this truck exactly how it left the factory, I believe I would be much better off just building a FE 390 since I no longer have the original matching numbers block. (Somewhere deep down inside I still contemplate building a bone stock 352 and utilizing the original exhaust manifolds / oil bath air cleaner / etc. I still have for the truck. I go back and fourth constantly.)

The main objective for this build is going to be building a FE 390, (or larger), using a donor block and getting it machined. I am going to ride the FE 360 until the build is done. (I plan on spanning this build out over a long period of time.) I am not necessarily looking to build a high performance engine, but a little power doesn't hurt. I care much more about reliability than I do high performance. I would like to build something with as much power as I can get without losing any reliability. I wouldn't mind having headers, aluminum intake and 4-bbl carb, but I do not want to build something that is going to destroy itself or cause the engine to not last as long as a non-high performance engine would have.

I currently own a 302 block with miscellaneous 302 parts that I am going to sell. I am going to use that money to purchase the donor block and send it off to a machine shop. This leads me into asking both of my main initial questions.

First of all, would you recommend anything bigger than a 390 in a non-racing / street use vehicle? I would imagine going with a larger engine may allow me to gain more power without having to stress the engine nearly as much.

Based off of that question, what donor block should I purchase? My local pick-a-part has plenty of 352 blocks, I would just need to measure the bore. What bore size should I be keeping an eye out for?

This is going to be my first engine build from the block up.
I appreciate any feedback.

Thanks a ton in advance,

Mister_King

 

Get a book or two on the FE.


How to Build Max-Performance Ford FE Engines by Barry Rabotnick | 9781934709153 | Paperback | Barnes & Noble

Basics:

Ford 352, 390, 406, 427 and 428 Engine Blocks

Back to your truck. Ford did not have "matching numbers", so that is not a "value" worry.

As far as value, I can't claim to be following the market, but it would seem to me that a '67 F100 4x4 isn't going to draw like a '60s performance car, showroom condition or not. You could spend a lot money here, and unless you've seen a lot of sales numbers, don't spend money on this thinking you'll get it back.

As far as building an FE goes, you can build an FE up into the 300 hp range and still have a reliable motor. Electronic ignition alone makes a huge difference.

For a simple motor, you might consider a 390 with the slightly dished 360 piston. That was how the 9.5 CR late '60s "Regular Fuel" 390s were built, with 2bbl carbs. D2TE heads, if you can find a good pair, had hardened seats as OEM. You may get lucky and find some that are servicable.

An RV type cam is ok, as long as you match springs and pushrods as required. if you are building a 4500 rpm motor which will usually be below 3000 rpm, the stock exhaust will work ok with a decent exhaust system behind it. Headers that are reliable are not inexpensive. Shop around. The 2bb intake and carb will work fine.

Shop around, read the millions of build thread here, spend with care and good luck with it.

 

I appreciate your response.

I was under the impression FE blocks had matching numbers with the truck itself? This was the only thing stopping me from wanting to build a stock 352. I completely understand what you are saying when you mention the fact that showroom quality or not, the truck isn't going to bring high numbers. I am not in it for the money, just a passion of mine. I personally enjoy bringing a vehicle back to how it was the day it left the dealership. Call me crazy, but I would love to build a stock 352. I understand it may not be near comparable to a high performance 390, but it would be worth more to me than any 390 I could build. It may not be worth more to someone else, but the truck is not going to be for sale as long as I am alive.

I appreciate the links. They seem to have some great info.

My only concern is, if I wanted to build a stock 352, how would I come across a 352 block that doesn't need to be bored? I would like to have a 352 block that is not bored, and has a build date before or close to 1967.

Once again, any information is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Mister_King

 

The last 352 was sold new in late '67 or early '68. How to find one that would not need a rebore is beyond me.

Maybe you can find an old wagon, sedan or pickup wadded up in an accident and buried in the corner of a wrecking yard....

With the price of scrap over the last 10 years, it might be a long search, as a lot of stuff went to the smelter I think.

As to numbers, Ford did not put VIN's on engines, with the exception of some late '60s high performance 428s and maybe a very few others that have been mentioned here before. Something about partial VINs on engines in Cobra Jet or Shelby cars maybe.

I understand the sentiment, but the fact is, no one can tell one from the other from the outside, so build a 445 if you want or search out that 352. They will both use about the same amount of gas in the end....

 

I have heard people say similar things. I have heard people say the FE 360 actually gets worse mileage than a FE 390. I believe I remember people saying it was due to the stroke? Not to sure. What is the science behind that? How could a 445 and a 352 get similar mileage? Im not saying I don't believe you, I am just curious as to how that makes sense scientifically. It seems as though bigger engine = more gas regardless of other factors. I know with this FE 360 its not uncommon to average below 10 MPG and it is bone stock with the exception of a paper air cleaner. Sucks because this is a daily driver truck and I plan on it staying that way, but the truck makes up for the bad mileage in many ways.

My initial plan was to build a bone stock 352 and utilize the original oil bath air cleaner, original exhaust manifolds, etc. Now that I come to think about it, I am doing nothing but limiting myself. I figure, if I am going to take the time to build up an engine, I minds as well make it worth while. I would hate to have built a nice stock 352 and always looked back and thought, "Man, I should have built a...".

If I were to make a much more powerful engine, could my original transmission handle it? It is a NP435. I have heard they are nearly indestructible, and I wouldn't be driving like a maniac. (It would be nice to have a sleeper appeal. ) You think its nothing but an old farm truck until the light turns green .

What exactly is a 445?

Thanks for the information so far,

Mister_King

 

In the 360 vs. 390 (pickup motors) discussion, the 360 has slightly lower compression and being a smaller motor, less torque. So you will tend to step in to the 360 a bit more to get results, vs. having more torque at lower revs with the 390. So you have a less efficient engine turning faster on average to do the same work. Bingo, more gas used.

If the 390 is brought up in compression, efficiency increases, as does torque accross the rpm range. (more compression yields more torque) The inherent torque advantage of the larger engine gains even more torque, requiring less loud pedal for similar results.

ymmv, as once you start getting results, most people like it so much they figure if a little is good, let's see what happens when I really mash the throttle....

Driven "normally" and not raced or otherwise bashed, the NP435 will take a mild or warm 390. NP435s were used in medium trucks. They used large input shafts but short of repeated drag race starts, I doubt you will have trouble with it.

A 445 is a 390 or other FE with the 4.05" bore which has been overbored by .030 and had an aftermarket 4.25" stroker crank added.

Rotating Assemblies

 

They are still out there. I have a standard bore 428cj sitting on a shelf in my workshop.

 

Realistically how big of a difference is the MPG between a 352 / 390 / 427 / 445?

Assuming it is a mild / near stock build with the only differences being headers, 4bbl aluminum intake, decent 4bbl carb and an eccentric ignition.

Appreciate all the info so far.

 

Low compression 352/390, pretty close, biggest variable is the driver. Thirsty.

427. Can't compare. Even the marine versions are in a different world than pickup 352/390 motors. I knew a guy who got 1 mpg in Saturday night street racing driving. Others here have gotten 13 mpg in highway runs with them. I'd say you'd be lucky to get 5 to 7 out of a real 427 in a pickup in day-to-day mixed driving. Best to forget about a 427 anyway. Different block, very expensive. You can't make a 427 out of the other FE motors.

428: These were car engines with higher compression. As such, they might get the same or better mpgs in a pickup vs. a 352/360/390 pickup motor. It would again depend on the driver.

445: Depends on the build and driver.

It is generally true that the bigger the motor, the more gas. But there are variables that can turn that on it's head.

You have many engine options with the FE, so decide what you really want. If you just want to poke around, the 9.5 CR 2bbl 390 would be my pick, with your money of course.

 

+1 on the Steve Christ book , i followed that book for my 390 build (first FE build)
390 will give you all the power you need for less $$
for a donor block check late 60s Tbirds base engine was 9.5 CR 390 .
rebuilt 390 4 brl 9.5cr with a mild cam will get you 350hp at the crank with tons of torque !

 

Reading this, I believe you may be thinking 352 engine because of the 352 foundry mark on the drivers side front. There may be some specialty engines with a different one but for the most part All pre 360 blocks have 352 on the and the last ones have a 105 in reverse on them. Those engine should have the heads with hardened seats.

The FE 360 was an early attempt to deal with the emmission requirements that the Feds were forcing on them, and didn't work very well. A LOT has changed since then.

I know this a FE 352 cid engine with head work, rv cam, headers, small 4 barrel can be a pulling bull. Regardless of which route that you go, flow is most important. Forget big carbs that spit unburned fuel on the roadway.


John

 

agree with John never need more than a 650 even that is too big for 390 in all actuality... main thing is think of your motor as an air pump the more efficiently you can move air from the carb to the tailpipe the more power and better fuel mileage possible i have a set of ported and polished 66 heads and when you couple them with my 1 7/8" primary 3" long tube race headers and my aluminum intake to match you are looking at an awesome combination i have a book with all my fuel usage in my truck with this same setup on a bone stock 150,000 mile 360 and the avg for the year was 16 mpg (tall gearing too) i have the same setup on the original 352 which i put the 9.5 compression pistons in while i had it apart and i get over 16 every day i turn the key and she will blow the tires off without hesitation and not hurt the fuel mileage that bad either good luck