pure coolant is not a good conductor of heat...its job is to prevent the water from freezing or boiling. so the problem with high concentrations of coolant is it does nto transfer heat from the block very well and like wise does not trasfer heat to the heater core very well. Thats why you often hear of block hot spots when high concentrations of pure coolant is used.

Water on the other hand does and thats why you need a 50/50 mix.

You can increase the efficency of how the water transfers heat by adding whats refered to as "wet water" . Coolant system modified with "wet water" will appear to run hotter since the cooling system is extracting more of the heat from the metal and like wise heater cores will appear to generate more heat becuase the wet water is transfering heat to the core better.

but as I said initially, I once had cooling system problems due to the dealership adding straight coolant during vehicle prep rather than the correct 50/50 mix. I found out using one of those 10 dollar hydrometers to test coolant ratios .

But if your ratio is good, then there are other issues to include thermostats stuck open.

 

I have suggested thermostat multiple times, they say that is not the problem, they continue to work to lay the ground work to state that this operation is normal.


I fully believe the regional "expert" will come in an say " operation with in specs"

 

Funny,a brand new bottle of prestone here has ratios from 50/50 to 90/10 on the bottle. 90/10 offers another 40 dg. of freeze protection and 80 deg. more of boilover. Don't believe me? look at one next time you are in walmart.

Once again, if there is liquid in the cooling system, that liquid will transfer heat. the ratio of water in that liquid has very little to do with how that liquid transfers heat.

 

Did you read where I said to "Read the label for the mix that is recommended with that brand." Point being they are all chemical mixes that combine with water to alter freeze/boiling points. As for as heat transfer in the liquid mix, yes in FACT we can increase/decrease the transfer rate.

Here is just one of many (its the one I use)

WaterWetter®
Unique agent for cooling systems that doubles the wetting ability of water
Rust and corrosion protection allows for use of straight water in racing or reduced antifreeze levels in warm climates
Improves heat transfer and reduces cylinder head temperature
May allow more spark advance for increase power and efficiency
Use one bottle for most passenger cars and light trucks, treats 3 to 5 gallons or 13.2 to 15.9 liters.
Reduces or eliminates bubbles or vapor barrier that form on hot metal surfaces to reduce coolant temperatures by up to 20°
Superior heat transfer properties compared to glycol-based antifreeze.

Red Line Synthetic Oil - WaterWetter® Coolant Additives - WaterWetter®

There are many others around and their use is common in the SW, with those in racing and especially the off road crowd, where you operate at low rpm and low water pump speeds. I have a lot of time in Death Valley and the Sonoran desert and it makes a difference in cooling when ambient temps run into the 130 F.

 

Yes, almost any liquid will transfer heat but the ratio of water to AF or any other chemical that is mixed with it can & does affect the heat transfer rate. Ask any residential or commercial boiler tech. I'm not trying to stir the pot, but heat transfer is very dependent on the liquids make up.

 

In addition, deionized water and 'heavy' water are both used in industry for unique factors to include better heat transfer.

 

some tid bits from google.

Coolant Selection

Water has a higher specific heat than an ethylene glycol or propylene glycol coolant mix. Therefore, it provides the best heat transfer performance in a cooling system. If a cooling system is marginal, that is, it only overheats on the hottest of days, then running with water as a coolant in the summer and an ethylene glycol or propylene glycol coolant solution during the rest of the year will probably solve the problem. Commercial coolant solutions provide cooling, anti-freeze protection, corrosion inhibitors to protect the metals in the cooling system, and a lubricant for the water pump. When running water as a coolant for maximum heat transfer, a product that provides a corrosion inhibitor and water pump lubricant should be added to the water.

In terms of the relative heat transfer performance of ethylene glycol versus propylene glycol coolant bases, they are pretty much equal when mixes according to the manufacturers’ recommendations, usually a 50/50 water to glycol mix. Ethylene glycol coolant solutions provide slightly higher heat transfer performance over propylene glycol solutions at low coolant flow rates.
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For maximum heat transfer performance in warm climates, use water as a coolant with an additive to provide a corrosion inhibitor and water pump lubricant. For winter service, use a 50/50 water to ethylene glycol coolant solution that includes corrosion inhibitors and a pump lubricant.<!--mstheme-->

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I got the owner to drive the truck around on Friday.


He agrees that the truck does not heat correctly in the automatic mode, but thinks it works ok when you manual select the dash vents, no heat on the floor though.


It was thought the "expert" was to be here on Monday to look at the truck, but now it turns out he will not be here until a week from Monday.


The owner wants me to contact the service department to see about returning the rental they are paying for and driving the truck for a week until the "expert" gets here. I have agreed to that so long as a work order is generated stating that there is a problem with the heat.


I have not heard back since that conversation.

 

So just an update.

The truck was dropped off again this Monday so the district Tech Rep from Ford could take a look. This is the fourth trip back for heat problems.

More things have stop working correctly.

1) Heat still does not work correctly, Distract Tech Rep from Ford has now experienced this, Service writer has experienced this, dealership owner has experienced this.

2) Exhaust filter overloaded message now appears each time the truck is started and then goes into the exhaust cleaning mode, Distract Tech from Ford has experienced this and cannot get it to stop recycling, shop tech has experienced this. Vehicle has been driven extensity to try an cycle the exhaust clean cycle.

3) Intermittently the radio cannot be controlled through the touch screen (I ordered the $1,00 navigation up grade option with this truck), it can be controlled through the media button on the center counsel when this happens. This has been experienced by the district Ford tech Rep, and the service writer.

4) Intermittent false reverse alarm goes off indicating obstruction on the right rear, (this continues to happen even after going to the rear and wiping the sensors)this has been experienced by the service writer and the dealership owner.

5) Intermittently when asking for manual defrost on the vent selector the indicator will not light up and no air out of the defrost, this has been experienced by the service writer.

Vehicle has been scanned multiple times with no faults found, no loose connections.

No know solutions for any of the problems yet.

This truck was ordered, cost $64,000, is just three months old and less that 7,500 miles on it.

So Tofan am I still "acting like a child"? Do you still think "As for the Auto setting there is NOTHING wrong with it" this last bit of outrage is directed to an earlier post, post number #34 https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post15065490 This is once again proof that the number of posts one makes is not proof of knowledge.

 

Probably lemon law it?

 

This has already met NY state Lemon law requirements, but that does not really help me, as I am then without a truck and what do I then buy?

Here are the important limiting NY requirements for a new vehicle lemon law.

if the problem substantially impairs the value of the car, the
manufacturer may be required to refund the full
purchase or lease price, or offer a comparable
replacement car

18,000 miles or two years

if you notify the manufacturer or

its authorized dealer of such defect within the first

18,000 miles of operation or two years
from the original delivery date,
whichever comes first, a) the manufacturer (or
its authorized dealer) has had an opportunity to repair
the same problem or more times and the problem
continued to exist at the end of the fourth repair
attempt; (b) the car was out of service by reason of
repair for a cumulative total of 30 or more calendar
days for one or more problems.

This is the whole law http://www.ag.ny.gov/sites/default/f...n_Law_2011.pdf

I would much rather have them find and fix the problem.

I have purchased their best extended warranty program which has a zero deductible, requires them to rent a vehicle for me if in the shop for more than 24 hours and covers at no cost scheduled maintenance. I am in this vehicle for the long haul, same with my 2007 which I love, right now I hate this truck.

 

Just an another update.

Truck is still at the dealer.

They have a tech driving it back an forth to work with the scanner hooked to it.

He is experiencing the problems, but no codes are being set (Ducts not opening or closing). The district Tech did experience the radio problems, do not know if the Ford Dealership Tech has.

Dealership service manager has been out the last several days.

Weather here is starting to break, in the 30's today, before long it will be to warm to diagnose the problem. I have really gotten used to the heat in the rental, will sweat you right out of the truck in about 5 minutes.

Ford Customer Official Rep keeps checking in.

 

It sounds like you have covered all your bases. Maybe, according to your statement above, you could talk to your extended warranty people, and they would pick up the tab for a rental while you are going through the lemon law process. To me, it would be worth a try.

 

Interesting...just went thru similar on my wife's Caddy Escalade.

No codes, things coming on and off on their own as if the car was haunted.

Gone are the days when the heater was always on and it was just a series of doors attached via cable to a switch on the dash. Everything is now driven off the computer. With no codes the dealer just passed it off back to me. Took it to a couple of shops and had them check battery and alternator, both said battery and alt all checked out ok.

So over a cup of coffee I sat down and gave it some thought...yes I had this problem once before on a '85 Jeep and it was a bad ground that caused intermittent electric condition and a friend had same thing and he brought it by my shop and I replaced the battery cables.

So I check the battery cables for corrosion...looked good, then that only left the battery. I ran over to Sears and told them I needed a new battery. They take her car, a short time later I am called into the shop and there is the Manager, service writer and mech...your battery checks out ok, why are you wanting it replaced...I said just replace it and yes I know its $209 bucks. OK Sir.

Problem fixed.

Not saying you have a bad battery or a corroded battery cable. But based upon your post I see a intermittent electrical issue. This could be in several places such as at the computer module which could have a piece of fuzz in the module. There could be a bad connection leading to a irregular short in the main system.

I would start to solve the issue at the one place that calls the shots for everything you posted...the computer and work forward from there.

 

Not sure how that would work as the extended warranty was pursed through Ford.

Worth a try though.

Most likely what will happen is I will get the truck back, they will not have found the problem, or will say that cannot duplicate the problem any more because the weather has gotten to warm.

If that happens I will fill out NY paper work and allow matters to run its course.

Either way I will have a vehicle to drive while that happens.

Just wish they would find the problem and fix it.

There are two batteries in this truck. Two battery grounds.