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Hey Tyler,
You are entering the shake down phase when everything should be working perfectly because you worked so hard getting it done right - but there are things that will need "ädjusting".
Brakes - Our brakes weren't quite right when we were done - the rod from the pedal to the master cylinder was just a little too long & residual pressure would build up in the system.
351W "too hot" - Hmmmm.. I've been down that road. A few thoughts:
o Our 351W has a 180 degree thermostat in it - that also is the temp that kicks off the electric fan. Our second fan speed kicks in 30 degrees higher than the first speed - 210 degrees. That's currently where our truck sits in town & in traffic. That's our 351W normal if that helps.
o A lot engine builders will use a 195 degree thermostat in a 351W as
that is what came stock in the EFI version of this engine. So... You may want to check what you have in there.
What temp. is your engine running when warmed up? Electric fan?
Good luck over there in Tucson! This phase can be aggravating....
Hey Tyler, You are entering the shake down phase when everything should be working perfectly because you worked so hard getting it done right - but there are things that will need "ädjusting". Brakes - Our brakes weren't quite right when we were done - the rod from the pedal to the master cylinder was just a little too long & residual pressure would build up in the system. 351W "too hot" - Hmmmm.. I've been down that road. A few thoughts: o Our 351W has a 180 degree thermostat in it - that also is the temp that kicks off the electric fan. Our second fan speed kicks in 30 degrees higher than the first speed - 210 degrees. That's currently where our truck sits in town & in traffic. That's our 351W normal if that helps. o A lot engine builders will use a 195 degree thermostat in a 351W as that is what came stock in the EFI version of this engine. So... You may want to check what you have in there. What temp. is your engine running when warmed up? Electric fan? Good luck over there in Tucson! This phase can be aggravating.... Ben in Austin 1950 F1
Thanks for all that info Ben! It's encouraging and relevant to our situation I think. Our front disc brakes seem to suddenly get hot for no reason, we can smell them, then they suddenly cool off for no apparent reason.
So based on your engine info, maybe our engine isn't getting hot after all. Maybe that's just the way it is. I'll look into it. We don't have an electric fan, just mechanical.
Contrary to popular belief the thermostat rating has little to nothing to do with how hot an engine runs, just how quickly it warms up. An efi engine runs more smoothly at full operating temp so a higher rated thermostat decreases the time it takes to reach that temp.
If using a mechanical fan, be sure all factory air baffles and seals are in place especially sealing the bottom of the radiator at the gravel pan and between the hood and top of the radiator so the maximum amount of air must go thru the radiator rather than spilling out around it. (many change radiators without changing the baffling or leave them out entirely). Air will take the path of least resistance so even a relatively small unobstructed opening will significantly reduce the radiator's cooling capacity. An electric fan pulling air thru the radiator is much more efficient at cooling than a mechanical one especially in warm climes. An electric fan moves air at the same rate whether the truck is moving or not, the engine is running at idle or full song. A mechanical fan slows down at idle reducing the airflow at low speeds or standing still, just when it is most needed. Most modern engines run at 205 - 210 after fully warming up, could reach 220 under extreme conditions without harm. Be sure to use a 50-50 antifreeze/ water mix, and a pressurized radiator cap to raise the coolant boiling point well above the engine max operating temp reached when driving at slow speeds for an extended period of time on the hottest day you are likely to encounter.
Contrary to popular belief the thermostat rating has little to nothing to do with how hot an engine runs, just how quickly it warms up. An efi engine runs more smoothly at full operating temp so a higher rated thermostat decreases the time it takes to reach that temp. If using a mechanical fan, be sure all factory air baffles and seals are in place especially sealing the bottom of the radiator at the gravel pan and between the hood and top of the radiator so the maximum amount of air must go thru the radiator rather than spilling out around it. (many change radiators without changing the baffling or leave them out entirely). Air will take the path of least resistance so even a relatively small unobstructed opening will significantly reduce the radiator's cooling capacity. An electric fan pulling air thru the radiator is much more efficient at cooling than a mechanical one especially in warm climes. An electric fan moves air at the same rate whether the truck is moving or not, the engine is running at idle or full song. A mechanical fan slows down at idle reducing the airflow at low speeds or standing still, just when it is most needed. Most modern engines run at 205 - 210 after fully warming up, could reach 220 under extreme conditions without harm. Be sure to use a 50-50 antifreeze/ water mix, and a pressurized radiator cap to raise the coolant boiling point well above the engine max operating temp reached when driving at slow speeds for an extended period of time on the hottest day you are likely to encounter.
Thanks Chuck! I don't have any baffles or anything like that but I'm not sure they were stock on F1s. I haven't sent them on the parts diagrams. I have a fan shroud, but that's it to force air thru the radiator vs sneaking in from around the sides.
I'm running around 200-210. You think that's alright? I'm not sure how to tell.
Thanks Chuck! I don't have any baffles or anything like that but I'm not sure they were stock on F1s. I haven't sent them on the parts diagrams. I have a fan shroud, but that's it to force air thru the radiator vs sneaking in from around the sides.
I'm running around 200-210. You think that's alright? I'm not sure how to tell.
Thx T
Tyler,
I've been up against similar problems a couple of times. I would start by somehow verifying that the gauge is accurate. One way is to stick the sensor into boiling water....it should read close to 212 degrees. If that's not practical, an IR thermometer can tell you the temp of hot metal surfaces. The radiator top tank comes to mind for that surface.
Tyler, I've been up against similar problems a couple of times. I would start by somehow verifying that the gauge is accurate. One way is to stick the sensor into boiling water....it should read close to 212 degrees. If that's not practical, an IR thermometer can tell you the temp of hot metal surfaces. The radiator top tank comes to mind for that surface. Dan
Yeah that's where I am right now. I bought an IR thermometer and that's how I know it's about 200-210. I have a stock gauge so it's next to useless in determining an actual temp value. It just points to the hottish quadrant on the scale, but not all the way hot. The top of the radiator usually shows about 200. The block between the water pump and the thermostat housing shows about 210. So not 100% sure I've actually got a problem at all. I guess I was just expecting it to be around 180 or so. I dot know where I got that.
I really should put this under a different thread I guess.
Part 16613 above hood to radiator tank baffle and seal.
Parts # 13068, 13069 side baffles, #8208 lower valance to radiator baffle, #8348 lower baffle seal (I don't know if these are the proper names for these parts but describes their function. #16613 should fit snugly to radiator tank when hood is closed.
Isn't this a fresh engine, new rings, etc.? Pretty normal for a fresh engine to run a little hotter at first, lots of friction, etc. Have you checked the timing, tho? And checked for proper vacuum advance?
Tyler, yes the F1s had the baffles. Part 16613 above hood to radiator tank baffle and seal. Parts # 13068, 13069 side baffles, #8208 lower valance to radiator baffle, #8348 lower baffle seal (I don't know if these are the proper names for these parts but describes their function. #16613 should fit snugly to radiator tank when hood is closed.
Ok, gotcha Chuck. I have the side ones (I always thought of them as "headlight backing panels". But I knew I was missing the top and bottom ones. They're definitely gone.
You think I should chase down some used ones and install them? I don't have a stock radiator so might have to fab something at least on top. Strangely, of all the things I've messed with on this project, I like designing and fabbing parts (even though mine usually take three attempts and look like a 1st grader made them .
Or should I give it time and see if the engine cools as it breaks in? (See post below).
Isn't this a fresh engine, new rings, etc.? Pretty normal for a fresh engine to run a little hotter at first, lots of friction, etc. Have you checked the timing, tho? And checked for proper vacuum advance?
Yes it is. Basically brand new.
No, not yet.
No, not yet.
I was pondering whether or not timing (and carb mixture too) would affect engine temp very much. You think it will? And vacuum advance too, huh?I am planning to get a friend of mine (the PO actually) to help me work thru that next week. He is wise in such matters.
Ok, gotcha Chuck. I have the side ones (I always thought of them as "headlight backing panels". But I knew I was missing the top and bottom ones. They're definitely gone.
You think I should chase down some used ones and install them? I don't have a stock radiator so might have to fab something at least on top. Strangely, of all the things I've messed with on this project, I like designing and fabbing parts (even though mine usually take three attempts and look like a 1st grader made them .
Or should I give it time and see if the engine cools as it breaks in? (See post below).
Thanks! Tyler
Yes, do add the panels especially the one under the hood, modify a stock one or make a custom one that fits and seals to the top of the radiator tank when closed. That's a HUGE air leak bypassing the radiator (the radiator looks like a solid wall to the air coming in the grill compared to that hole, like leaving the doors to you house standing open in a blizzard) The only thing your fan is doing is stirring the air passing above and below it. After installing all the baffles and seals, I'd remove the fan shroud to gain cooling. IR temp guns are far from accurate, better to remove the radiator cap and stick a good thermometer in the coolant to get an accurate reading. Timing will definitely affect engine temp as Ross says.
I'd look for your brake issues in sticking residual pressure valve or using an external valve and a MC with one already built in, a sticking or leaking caliper (did you grease the slide pins with a light coat of high temp grease?), a brake pedal that is hanging up on the rug or floor pass thru, A weak, broken or missing pedal return spring, insufficient pedal free play or wrong length pushrod, finally, driver resting their foot on brake pedal.
12-30-2014, 10:53 PM
. But I knew I was missing the top and bottom ones. They're definitely gone.