Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Performance, Engines & Troubleshooting > Modular V8 (4.6L, 5.4L)
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


4.6 4v and 4r75e Wiring & Programing

Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 12-16-2014, 05:37 PM
Ford'05HG's Avatar
Ford'05HG Ford'05HG is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 639
Ford'05HG is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.Ford'05HG is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
4.6 4v and 4r75e Wiring & Programing

Hello all, I have come across a 97 Mark VIII for a good price in very good condition. I am thinking of buying it but the owner told the trans may soon go. I'm still interested and thought about swapping in a 4r75e because my Expedition has one and I love the **** out of it. I have the capability to do it myself so that's the route I'm going.

Is there a way to do this even if it involves extensive wiring work. I love doing wiring so I'm happy to take the time and do it correctly. It's an art sort of... Any suggestions to help me get to the goal?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-16-2014, 08:12 PM
DarrinBC's Avatar
DarrinBC DarrinBC is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 149
DarrinBC is starting off with a positive reputation.
BC Automotive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford'05HG View Post
Hello all, I have come across a 97 Mark VIII for a good price in very good condition. I am thinking of buying it but the owner told the trans may soon go. I'm still interested and thought about swapping in a 4r75e because my Expedition has one and I love the **** out of it. I have the capability to do it myself so that's the route I'm going.

Is there a way to do this even if it involves extensive wiring work. I love doing wiring so I'm happy to take the time and do it correctly. It's an art sort of... Any suggestions to help me get to the goal?
Has to be from a 2wd vehicle.

Biggest problem is that the output shaft on a 4r75e will either have the wrong number of teeth to drive the speedo gear or no teeth at all. No teeth at all will require a complete tear down to replace the output shaft with one that does. Otherwise for the wrong number of teeth a correcting speedo gear can be installed. The ring gear is going to have 24 "holes" instead of 6. Replace that when you are in there for the output shaft or tune for the difference.

Electronically the issue will be either a need to rewire the harness on the car to work with the new electronics or replace the internal electronics with the old style stuff. I can help you with that through diagrams and write ups. Easy stuff here.

It's not a horrible job. Just know what you are getting into before you get into it and it's too late.

D
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-17-2014, 12:55 AM
Ford'05HG's Avatar
Ford'05HG Ford'05HG is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 639
Ford'05HG is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.Ford'05HG is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinBC View Post

Has to be from a 2wd vehicle.

Biggest problem is that the output shaft on a 4r75e will either have the wrong number of teeth to drive the speedo gear or no teeth at all. No teeth at all will require a complete tear down to replace the output shaft with one that does. Otherwise for the wrong number of teeth a correcting speedo gear can be installed. The ring gear is going to have 24 "holes" instead of 6. Replace that when you are in there for the output shaft or tune for the difference.

Electronically the issue will be either a need to rewire the harness on the car to work with the new electronics or replace the internal electronics with the old style stuff. I can help you with that through diagrams and write ups. Easy stuff here.

It's not a horrible job. Just know what you are getting into before you get into it and it's too late.

D
Thanks for the reply! So the output shaft needs to be replaced and tuning is necessary? I'm going to tune it anyways, that's why I'm putting a 4r75e in instead of another 4r70w. I figured it could shave some time off of my 0-60 too.

Where do you think I should get my trans PCM from? I know the Mercury Marauders had a 4v and 4r75e but I would think it might be hard to get a hold of one of those. The 3v motors had them too for awhile but they were VCT engines and I don't know that the wiring harness would work with a 4v. What do you think?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-17-2014, 07:23 AM
DarrinBC's Avatar
DarrinBC DarrinBC is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 149
DarrinBC is starting off with a positive reputation.
BC Automotive
Why not use the computer that's in the car now?

D
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-18-2014, 11:02 AM
Ford'05HG's Avatar
Ford'05HG Ford'05HG is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 639
Ford'05HG is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.Ford'05HG is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinBC View Post
Why not use the computer that's in the car now?

D
Because I think they wouldn't work right. The 4r75e is electronic Shifts and T/C to my understanding and the 4r70w is old school. Am I correct?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-18-2014, 04:50 PM
70f100longbed's Avatar
70f100longbed 70f100longbed is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Raleigh USA
Posts: 1,081
70f100longbed has a very good reputation on FTE.70f100longbed has a very good reputation on FTE.70f100longbed has a very good reputation on FTE.
There is not much difference between a 4r70w and 4r75e. Ford changed a few parts to work with the electronic throttle body and some durability upgrades. They work the same and both are controlled by the PCM. If the 4r70w is good then I would use that and keep the 4r75e for parts just in case the 4r70w needs rebuilt.
__________________
Ford senior master tech
Every 5.4 3V owner should have Lisle tool #65600
8L3Z-6M280-B updated VCT solenoids for 5.4 3V rattle
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-18-2014, 06:57 PM
DarrinBC's Avatar
DarrinBC DarrinBC is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 149
DarrinBC is starting off with a positive reputation.
BC Automotive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford'05HG View Post
Because I think they wouldn't work right. The 4r75e is electronic Shifts and T/C to my understanding and the 4r70w is old school. Am I correct?
Actually the PCM in that MKVIII will run that transmission just fine as long as the car doesn't get too powerful. At that point it might not be able to keep up, but you would have bigger issues to deal with.

For your purposes, no need to change the PCM just for that transmission swap as long as the other things mentioned above are addressed. The PCM will never know the difference.

D
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-18-2014, 11:30 PM
Ford'05HG's Avatar
Ford'05HG Ford'05HG is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 639
Ford'05HG is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.Ford'05HG is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinBC View Post

Actually the PCM in that MKVIII will run that transmission just fine as long as the car doesn't get too powerful. At that point it might not be able to keep up, but you would have bigger issues to deal with.

For your purposes, no need to change the PCM just for that transmission swap as long as the other things mentioned above are addressed. The PCM will never know the difference.

D
Thanks D, I appreciate your quick and helpful responses! I don't think this mark will ever see over 500 hp but you never know! If I do decide to build it that big I'll definitely do more upgrades all around. I'm not one to cheap out on something important.

That being said, do you think the stock PCM is really going to be able to think as quickly as the 4r75e needs. I'm doing the install because I'm going to seriously tune the trans and engine when I get it to make this a pretty fast car. I like my shifts as quick and powerful as my trans can handle. Thanks again
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-19-2014, 12:40 AM
Ford'05HG's Avatar
Ford'05HG Ford'05HG is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 639
Ford'05HG is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.Ford'05HG is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 70f100longbed View Post
There is not much difference between a 4r70w and 4r75e. Ford changed a few parts to work with the electronic throttle body and some durability upgrades. They work the same and both are controlled by the PCM. If the 4r70w is good then I would use that and keep the 4r75e for parts just in case the 4r70w needs rebuilt.
Thanks for that info 70f10longbed. I did not know the trans were identical.

You bring up the ETC, the Mark VIII as you guys my know is old fashioned FI Throttle. Will they still work?
And you also mentioned the PCM's, the one to the 4r75e I am told is faster than the older PCMs. Do you know this to be true?

I'm looking for every ounce of shift power and control at my fingers when I touch a button on my tuner.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-19-2014, 12:53 AM
Ford'05HG's Avatar
Ford'05HG Ford'05HG is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 639
Ford'05HG is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.Ford'05HG is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
By faster PCM I mean more processing power.

I know the 4r75e in stock form can shift super hard or very unnoticeable. And also very quick and almost hang up a gear for a few seconds. (man that makes me mad)

Can I still get the full ability to control that with a programmer made for the Mark VIII. BTW do they even have those for this thing? The car is sort of before its time.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-19-2014, 08:12 AM
DarrinBC's Avatar
DarrinBC DarrinBC is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 149
DarrinBC is starting off with a positive reputation.
BC Automotive
Seems like this is getting overly complicated and it really needn't be.

Maybe it's best to explain that the transmission is a "dumb" device. It relies totally on external computer control other than minor differences in the valve body and control spring setups for shift timing and firmness and those can be addressed on the older PCM through tuning

The computer controls the 2 shift solenoid, a torque converter clutch solenoid and an electronic pressure regulator. All of these from the newer transmission are compatible with the PCM from the 97 MKVIII. That is not the case with some earlier vehicles however in relation to the converter clutch solenoid. No worries with that on your 97.

Fortunately you are looking at a setup that will work perfectly with very minor modification electronically as the transmission truthfully "needs" nothing different in a PCM than what the stock MK PCM provides. Everything that needs to be controlled for exactly normal operation is there. The only change required electronically is that the wiring harness on the vehicle side needs to be re-pinned since the newer transmission has a different configuration in its connector.

I have helped with and been part of literally hundreds of these swaps. They are only as complicated as the people doing them make them because hardware wise it's as near straight in as you can get without being straight it.

The things that have to be addressed were posted earlier. The output shaft must have speedo drive teeth on it. As long as you are ok to correct those issues you are golden.

D
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-20-2014, 10:26 PM
Ford'05HG's Avatar
Ford'05HG Ford'05HG is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 639
Ford'05HG is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.Ford'05HG is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinBC View Post
Seems like this is getting overly complicated and it really needn't be.

Maybe it's best to explain that the transmission is a "dumb" device. It relies totally on external computer control other than minor differences in the valve body and control spring setups for shift timing and firmness and those can be addressed on the older PCM through tuning

The computer controls the 2 shift solenoid, a torque converter clutch solenoid and an electronic pressure regulator. All of these from the newer transmission are compatible with the PCM from the 97 MKVIII. That is not the case with some earlier vehicles however in relation to the converter clutch solenoid. No worries with that on your 97.

Fortunately you are looking at a setup that will work perfectly with very minor modification electronically as the transmission truthfully "needs" nothing different in a PCM than what the stock MK PCM provides. Everything that needs to be controlled for exactly normal operation is there. The only change required electronically is that the wiring harness on the vehicle side needs to be re-pinned since the newer transmission has a different configuration in its connector.

I have helped with and been part of literally hundreds of these swaps. They are only as complicated as the people doing them make them because hardware wise it's as near straight in as you can get without being straight it.

The things that have to be addressed were posted earlier. The output shaft must have speedo drive teeth on it. As long as you are ok to correct those issues you are golden.

D
Ok. Thank you very much for clarifying. I thought transmissions handled themselves based on communication with the engine. It may be another 2 months on this trans or another 10. Either way I won't do the work until it quits, at which point I'll rebuild it and put it away for a 4.6 turbo ranger build.

I'll be sure to swap in a speedo output shaft and when the time comes I will be back for a wiring diagram to re-pin the harness.

You've been very helpful! Thank you!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 10:26 PM
 
 
 
Reply


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2005 E-250 transmission Which one do I have ???? rotten65 Clutch, Transmission, Differential, Axle & Transfer Case 0 03-03-2014 08:58 PM
4R75E problems after rebuild Hotairjunkie Clutch, Transmission, Differential, Axle & Transfer Case 3 09-01-2013 09:15 AM
Wrangler Duratrac- 285 vs. 305 IcutMetl Brakes, Steering, Suspension, Tires, & Wheels 0 05-07-2011 04:54 PM
Request your advice, should I keep my truck? Tahnka Pre-Power Stroke Diesel (7.3L IDI & 6.9L) 32 10-07-2010 05:58 AM
Trailer towing questions sedwardson Super Duty & Heavy Duty 9 06-05-2008 05:01 PM


Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Performance, Engines & Troubleshooting > Modular V8 (4.6L, 5.4L)

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


Participate In The Forums

Create new posts and participate in discussions. It's free!

Sign Up »


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Ford® is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup