Day I unloaded them off the truck... "98%" military take off's...





42,000 miles later...



Just took these today for reference.

Have not done anything to the front end but replace BROKEN parts.

Honestly have no hate for tug, just hate to see a guy seeming struggle through stuff that should be simple.

I do think if the issue was not there before the trackbars, might be time to remove them for a few weeks.

OR just rotate the tires every few weeks and do lots of burnouts.

 

I think its just the tires....
what I use in order
michelin
uniroyal
bf goodrich

 

With respect, that advice won't work for Kegs763 - who has some of the same tire wear.



I'm not struggling through truck stuff that's simple - 4 alignment shops in my area are (one of which put the ladder bars on). I'm trying to get a flash-education to walk them through how to fix my freaking truck, and I seem to be struggling with that simple task.

 

Relax buddy. Even tire wear is a reasonable goal. And it is likely achievable and you will achieve it.

But unfortunately no body cares about my truck like me, and no body cares about your truck like you.

So, sorry to remind you of what you already know, but you will have to educate yourself to know whether or not you are getting knowledgeable and good service from the professional service providers.

It is just the way it is in America today. Professionals do it for money. Amateurs do it for the love of doing.

Other truck owners may accept things about their trucks which you would not accept. That is ok too. But you are not wrong by refusing to accept less than what your truck's design can deliver.

When I was researching my van's DW, I learned that there are Ford and Dodge truck owners out there with Death Wobble on new unmodified trucks. And the dealers tell them that the problem does not exist or that it is from improper tire inflation. And the alignment shops charge thousands in replacing track bars and track bar bushings and ball joints and changing camber. And the problem persists.

Those owners had to either sell their trucks to an unsuspecting buyer or they had to educate themselves as to the cause of the problem after all the professionals were paid and failed.

I know this won't make you feel better, but it should. Your tire wear is an expensive inconvenience. You don't have Death Wobble which on snowy roads like your home base can, in fact, cause injury or death.

Hang in there. You will find the problem and fix it. And hopefully you will post the results so we all can learn.

 

drawing straws here, but anyway of confirming that the frame is straight. maybe the slightest outta whack for it to not reveil itself visual and/or drivability, but, it showing by way of tire wear?

 

That should show up on the thrust of the alignment.

 

Rich I'm sorry to see that this problem isn't resolved yet but I am sure you will get to the bottom of it. I feel your pain when dealing with alignment shops because I knew what FEA specs I wanted and I had 3 shops say they didn't want to deal with me and my specs. They said they could only do so much. Which is BS since I replaced everything !! I went to 2 more shops that said they can't align my truck and finally I went to a old school shop with a tech that was at least 40 yrs old and told me he would give me what I wanted and he did exactly what I wanted. So you figure out what specs you are looking for and find someone who will give them to you. Factory specs are alittle vague and are too sloppy for my liking. But mind you my specs are within factory specs.

Very well put Tim. I myself am very picky about my vehicles and I will not settle for some numb nuts to tell me "Well that is good enough."
It might be OK some people. I am happy they can be pleased that easy or just over look a problem and say well I can live with it.
I drive myself nuts sometimes trying to fix or improve something on one of my vehicles and more so on my truck. Because to me my truck is a tool that I use to make money or haul the most important thing in the world to me and that is my family. So there is no settling for just OK.

 

I understand wanting things to be perfect; I'm rather a perfectionist myself. But there must come a time when the perfectionist instinct is overcome with practicality, and you realize it's no longer practical nor cost effective to keep throwing money at a problem, whether the problem is real or simply perceived. This is especially true when every time you attempt to fix a problem it causes three more, and/or the original problem still exists. You have to know when to throw in the towel, say enough is enough, and make it someone else's problem.

 

Warning! Warning! Incoming internet speculation! *

It seems to me that uneven tire wear is THE INDISPUTABLE SIGN of a bad alignment, regardless of what the alignment machine or its operator says.

Now, I know less about our trucks than most people posting or reading here. So, unless I say that I have had personal experience diagnosing and fixing a particular problem, my input is solely from reading and thinking, without any experience and without experimentation whatsoever. So, it constitutes pure internet speculation and, thus, is probably wrong.

With that disclaimer in mind, based on my previous experience with alignment shops while chasing my Death Wobble and based upon my reading of the links and watching the sales animations in post # 79 above, I wonder if poor shocks could affect what for purposes of this post we could call "dynamic alignment."

Because it seems to me that an alignment machine only measures what we could call "static alignment" ** meaning the position of the tire in relation to the suspension while the wheel is not rotating and the suspension is not extending and retracting in reaction to bumps and depressions in the road.

You alignment gurus: Doesn’t the actual alignment of the tire to the roadway change when the wheel bounces?

Especially on a solid front 4x4 axle?*** Especially if there is any wear in the ball joints, tie rod ends, steering gear or shock absorbers. In other words, doesn’t camber, toe and caster change per tire per intended direction of travel when the suspension is deflected by bumps, pot holes and other variations of the roadway?

And isn't the suspension deflected more times per tire revolution if the shock absorber is worn or wrong for its application? ****

If so, couldn’t worn or the wrong valved shocks cause the wheel to lose some amount of contact with the roadway (as other posters have mentioned in this thread) and deflect and thus scuff an uneven (especially a feather or heel and toe) tire wear pattern as the tires unsuccessfully try to roll straight forward down the road?

Wouldn’t a "resonating" bouncing wheel caused by a slightly worn or an inappropriately valved shock absorber be even worse? ***** Wouldn't that shock absorber work like an orbital sander, wearing down the tread on the tire as it rotates and scuffs its way down the road?

O.K. I am done speculating. I put my thoughts out there to be built upon, torn apart or burned to the ground. I have my flame suit on and my heat shield down.

Flame away.

[I am going to PM Ramsey Al Wardini to see if I can get him to post in this thread to help Tugly and to disabuse me of my internet speculation and to help us all. I don’t know if he will post here, it seems like he already has all the customers he can handle from the sportsmobileforum.com at the moment.]

* Per Cleatus12r

** Things have progressed in the world of wheel balancing. When I worked at my Dad’s gas station as a teenager I did a static wheel balance with the tire on a spindle with a bubble in it for each tire we sold. Now the standard is a spinning (i.e., "dynamic") wheel balance.

*** I have a solid 4x4 front axle with coils, you guys have leaf springs.

**** Watch the Youtube video where the guy put a go pro facing his tire when it goes off on a Death Wobble and it will remind you of an orbital sander.

***** Come on man, the "bounce test" for determining whether a shock absorber is good or appropriately valved? Haven't we gotten beyond that for Christ's sake? (BTW, Merry Christmas !!!)

 

The root cause of my frustration.

I have talked to a number of people locally, and received tons of input, encouragement, and words of wisdom here on the forum. I appreciate all of it, I now feel better educated on the front end - and reassured that it's not just me who thinks this is getting out of hand.

I paid some guys to fix Stinky's nose. They installed Moog slugs that are adjustable, so my camber can be dialed next time. They did a 4-wheel alignment, and I forgot to ask what the specs are, I'll get those Monday. Now it's wait and see (more waiting than seeing).

I have come to the conclusion that I need to hit the reset button on how I approach these problems. For starters, I need to stop thinking of Stinky as a 1/2-ton, and realize I'm in a world heretofore unfamiliar to me. I'll dump the tire shop that I've been using for 25 years (I'll still use them for the "normal" vehicles) and evaluate who can best deal with all that iron on a lift.

I also need to take a break from the truck. While I may have solved the obvious tire wear issue (or not), I lost all interest in driving it. I still have a need to use it for trips over mountain passes in the winter, but the daily-driving aspect is on hold until I muster enough giveachit to address two other serious issues with the truck. Nobody in this berg can help me with those, and it's clear to me a new thread on the other set of issues will quickly spiral into a popcorn-fest. I'll help others on the forum where I can, but my big wrenches will collect dust for a while (maybe a long while).

Just when fuel prices are plummeting - I don't even want to step on the runningboard. This is not a pity party. I doubt anyone could fault me for losing so much blood and treasure on a truck for three years without ending up on top - and needing a break. It's not even in a condition to sell right now, because a prospective buyer's first question after a test drive will be "What the hell is that?" - and the answer will be "Nobody knows."

When I know more about the results on the tire alignment, I will report back.

 

10-4 . . .

 

Wow,,,,,, That's a shame that it's come to this. To a point, I can relate to what you're going through Tugly. Hope things do turn around.

 

Rich please report back on what them specs are. At that point it might be a good idea to start a thread where guys post up what their FEA specs are and what tire wear they get. But they would need to post facts like tire size, wheelbase, lift, SRW or DRW. Because with my last alignment I know I am moving in the right direction with specs but there still could be room for improvement. Because I do fell as a group FTE we can find specs that will help each other out. That way we don't have to be at the mercy of some FEA tech just giving us what he feels is OK.

And as far as your frustration I thing you need a hug ! Hang in there brother!

 

On the way to breakfast this morning, we picked up the mail. I received a recall notice on my tires. The language in my head right now is not for public consumption.

 

WOW...how ironic