Oh look! Another stealership post!
#31
12-11-2014, 09:41 PM
Pissed off me wrote the first post. More rational me is typing now. I was never told I was getting charged a flat rate, or that the going rate was 3 hours to change out just the brake pads. I was told it would take "about an hour" and would be around $120. that was on top of the oil/filter change. This also wasn't the first time I'd had them do an oil change, it was the third, each priced at $145. The oil change wasn't a surprise, that was the charge this time too. My issue was the time listed for the pad change, which didn't match up to the actual amount of time I was there, and that it was the going "flat rate" for labor of this kind. I felt like they were trying to slip it by me, and when I called out the service manager on this his reaction was to absolutely deny there was anything wrong. Instead of "what seems to be the problem?" I got "that's what we charge around here, what we've always charged, why can't you just accept it?". Oh, and I provided the brake pads. The rotors spec'd out fine.
And yes, Santa does have the time to get me a 4-ton floor jack.
And yes, Santa does have the time to get me a 4-ton floor jack.
And I seriously doubt the mechanic set the hours on the job.
The hours billed should be set by the service writer or whomever is doing the billing.
Flat rate sucks. Not fair to the customer or the person doing the work.
And the guy booking 60+ hours in a 40 hour week is cutting corners somewhere, or getting all the gravy - easy jobs because he is not the the trans, engine, drive train fuel systems guy.
#32
12-11-2014, 10:09 PM
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Howdy folks up here in small town Ontario Canada. Have a 2012 6.7 bought the maintenance package FFMP when I bought the truck expensive $3200. All maintenance is covered. So i took it into Polito Ford where they always do my service. They booked an appt and I promptly forgot. Showed up the next day apologized tried to get another one and was told it would be a week and a half. Seeing i was getting close to the mileage for an oil change I took it to another dealer same town one mile away. From what I am now learning now the only thing they did was to change the oil and filter (hopefully) and billed Ford for a complete service. When I noticed they had put the wrong oil into the truck I was pissed. Its cold up here and they put in 15w40. After a week and dropping temps I took it back to the original dealer Polito and told them to do another service. In the meantime Ford sent me a survey for Monyes Ford. I filled it out saying how dissatisfied I was . Service manager from Moynes called and lost his headgasket saying it was the worst servey they had . He tries to tell me they dont add DEF fluid because he had customer complaints about adding def. no windshield washer fluid nothing Still not finished with Ford yet. Dying to find out what this dealership billed to Ford for this service. Sounds like a little fraud happening here at my expence
#33
12-11-2014, 11:17 PM
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Right or wrong, an hour for the service and 2 hours for the pads sounds about right.
And I seriously doubt the mechanic set the hours on the job.
The hours billed should be set by the service writer or whomever is doing the billing.
Flat rate sucks. Not fair to the customer or the person doing the work.
And the guy booking 60+ hours in a 40 hour week is cutting corners somewhere, or getting all the gravy - easy jobs because he is not the the trans, engine, drive train fuel systems guy.
And I seriously doubt the mechanic set the hours on the job.
The hours billed should be set by the service writer or whomever is doing the billing.
Flat rate sucks. Not fair to the customer or the person doing the work.
And the guy booking 60+ hours in a 40 hour week is cutting corners somewhere, or getting all the gravy - easy jobs because he is not the the trans, engine, drive train fuel systems guy.
#34
12-12-2014, 06:03 AM
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It may sound right, but from start to finish, both the oil/filter change and the brake pads change took 1 1/2 hours give or take 5. I walked away from the dealership at around 815am to grab breakfast, came back and waited some more. The truck was pulled out of the bay at around 950am. More to the point, if it's a flat rate you're going to charge me, at least tell me this before the work is started. both the service manager and the service writer thought the other had explained this to me. Only the service writer, once I was outside and getting ready to leave, came up to me and apologized for not telling me about the flat rate charge. As I said prior, had I known about it beforehand, I probably wouldn't have had a problem with it. Didn't know, wasn't told, so what I saw on the bill was 3 hours labor.
#35
12-12-2014, 09:26 AM
It may sound right, but from start to finish, both the oil/filter change and the brake pads change took 1 1/2 hours give or take 5. I walked away from the dealership at around 815am to grab breakfast, came back and waited some more. The truck was pulled out of the bay at around 950am. More to the point, if it's a flat rate you're going to charge me, at least tell me this before the work is started. both the service manager and the service writer thought the other had explained this to me. Only the service writer, once I was outside and getting ready to leave, came up to me and apologized for not telling me about the flat rate charge. As I said prior, had I known about it beforehand, I probably wouldn't have had a problem with it. Didn't know, wasn't told, so what I saw on the bill was 3 hours labor.
Every dealer work order I've ever seen has an estimate, even warranty work.
The estimate is signed before work begins.
I've questioned the warranty estimate (usually $99) and the service writer would say "just a formality, just in case".
I'm very surprised you did not have an estimate for this work.
Secondly, and Crystal can confirm, the dealer did you a favor by installing non-ford parts for you. Dealers will cite liability and warranty reasons on why they " have" to use OEM parts.
Lastly, and from memory, a dealer will not r&r pads without surfacing or replacing the rotor.
Yes, I know many of us have done it, but dealers will bring up that same liability/warranty reasoning again.
Even if there was no estimate, I'd bet the dealer has a huge "menu" in the service drive stating prices for common work.....like oil changes and brake jobs.
I'm thinking you knew the estimate going in and got pissed they got it done too fast.
You're now learning about flat rate and realize the dealer did not screw you. In fact, letting you use your own pads was a favor, IMHO.
And if your user name is your occupation, thank you for your service.
#36
12-12-2014, 11:19 AM
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Please forgive me in advance for the tone of this post. It's not meant to be confrontational, I'm just confused on the details.
Every dealer work order I've ever seen has an estimate, even warranty work.
The estimate is signed before work begins.
I've questioned the warranty estimate (usually $99) and the service writer would say "just a formality, just in case".
I'm very surprised you did not have an estimate for this work.
Secondly, and Crystal can confirm, the dealer did you a favor by installing non-ford parts for you. Dealers will cite liability and warranty reasons on why they " have" to use OEM parts.
Lastly, and from memory, a dealer will not r&r pads without surfacing or replacing the rotor.
Yes, I know many of us have done it, but dealers will bring up that same liability/warranty reasoning again.
Even if there was no estimate, I'd bet the dealer has a huge "menu" in the service drive stating prices for common work.....like oil changes and brake jobs.
I'm thinking you knew the estimate going in and got pissed they got it done too fast.
You're now learning about flat rate and realize the dealer did not screw you. In fact, letting you use your own pads was a favor, IMHO.
And if your user name is your occupation, thank you for your service.
Every dealer work order I've ever seen has an estimate, even warranty work.
The estimate is signed before work begins.
I've questioned the warranty estimate (usually $99) and the service writer would say "just a formality, just in case".
I'm very surprised you did not have an estimate for this work.
Secondly, and Crystal can confirm, the dealer did you a favor by installing non-ford parts for you. Dealers will cite liability and warranty reasons on why they " have" to use OEM parts.
Lastly, and from memory, a dealer will not r&r pads without surfacing or replacing the rotor.
Yes, I know many of us have done it, but dealers will bring up that same liability/warranty reasoning again.
Even if there was no estimate, I'd bet the dealer has a huge "menu" in the service drive stating prices for common work.....like oil changes and brake jobs.
I'm thinking you knew the estimate going in and got pissed they got it done too fast.
You're now learning about flat rate and realize the dealer did not screw you. In fact, letting you use your own pads was a favor, IMHO.
And if your user name is your occupation, thank you for your service.
"I'm very surprised you did not have an estimate for this work.
Secondly, and Crystal can confirm, the dealer did you a favor by installing non-ford parts for you. Dealers will cite liability and warranty reasons on why they " have" to use OEM parts.
Lastly, and from memory, a dealer will not r&r pads without surfacing or replacing the rotor."
No written estimate was provided. I did have the verbal estimate of "about $120" from the previous day's phone call.
Yes, they were doing me a favor by installing my pads vs. theirs. An $80 favor to be exact.
I was informed by the mechanic that the rotors were within specifications, so no resurfacing was performed.
"I'm thinking you knew the estimate going in and got pissed they got it done too fast.
You're now learning about flat rate and realize the dealer did not screw you. In fact, letting you use your own pads was a favor, IMHO."
Now why on earth would I get mad about not having to wait around for my service to be completed? Hanging out in a dealership waiting area isn't my idea of a good time.
As to the second statement, my post wasn't about what they charged me. It was about how they responded to my query about the charge. In this particular case, yes, a flat rate would've been more expensive given the amount of time the work took vs. what the book says it should take. Did they do me a "favor" by installing my pads vs. their pads? Yes, to the tune of $80 in price difference. But again, the money savings wasn't the issue here. I don't take kindly to having someone respond to a question in a physically threatening manner, regardless of the situation. I'll bet most people reading this post wouldn't either.
#37
12-12-2014, 12:01 PM
I don't know how to multiquote a single message so I'm going to re-quote your statement and answer accordingly.
"I'm very surprised you did not have an estimate for this work.
Secondly, and Crystal can confirm, the dealer did you a favor by installing non-ford parts for you. Dealers will cite liability and warranty reasons on why they " have" to use OEM parts.
Lastly, and from memory, a dealer will not r&r pads without surfacing or replacing the rotor."
No written estimate was provided. I did have the verbal estimate of "about $120" from the previous day's phone call.
Yes, they were doing me a favor by installing my pads vs. theirs. An $80 favor to be exact.
I was informed by the mechanic that the rotors were within specifications, so no resurfacing was performed.
"I'm thinking you knew the estimate going in and got pissed they got it done too fast.
You're now learning about flat rate and realize the dealer did not screw you. In fact, letting you use your own pads was a favor, IMHO."
Now why on earth would I get mad about not having to wait around for my service to be completed? Hanging out in a dealership waiting area isn't my idea of a good time.
As to the second statement, my post wasn't about what they charged me. It was about how they responded to my query about the charge. In this particular case, yes, a flat rate would've been more expensive given the amount of time the work took vs. what the book says it should take. Did they do me a "favor" by installing my pads vs. their pads? Yes, to the tune of $80 in price difference. But again, the money savings wasn't the issue here. I don't take kindly to having someone respond to a question in a physically threatening manner, regardless of the situation. I'll bet most people reading this post wouldn't either.
"I'm very surprised you did not have an estimate for this work.
Secondly, and Crystal can confirm, the dealer did you a favor by installing non-ford parts for you. Dealers will cite liability and warranty reasons on why they " have" to use OEM parts.
Lastly, and from memory, a dealer will not r&r pads without surfacing or replacing the rotor."
No written estimate was provided. I did have the verbal estimate of "about $120" from the previous day's phone call.
Yes, they were doing me a favor by installing my pads vs. theirs. An $80 favor to be exact.
I was informed by the mechanic that the rotors were within specifications, so no resurfacing was performed.
"I'm thinking you knew the estimate going in and got pissed they got it done too fast.
You're now learning about flat rate and realize the dealer did not screw you. In fact, letting you use your own pads was a favor, IMHO."
Now why on earth would I get mad about not having to wait around for my service to be completed? Hanging out in a dealership waiting area isn't my idea of a good time.
As to the second statement, my post wasn't about what they charged me. It was about how they responded to my query about the charge. In this particular case, yes, a flat rate would've been more expensive given the amount of time the work took vs. what the book says it should take. Did they do me a "favor" by installing my pads vs. their pads? Yes, to the tune of $80 in price difference. But again, the money savings wasn't the issue here. I don't take kindly to having someone respond to a question in a physically threatening manner, regardless of the situation. I'll bet most people reading this post wouldn't either.
Sorry if I missed that part....
I still don't understand allowing ANYONE to do work on a vehicle without an idea on what the cost was going to be.... (ie: a written estimate)
And "being in spec" is not the only reason dealers resurface rotors. New pads are supposed to have a fresh surface with a specific machine pattern to seat correctly. Again, a lot of us don't do it, but dealers usually cover their butts because of this litigious society we live in.
Live and learn I suppose.
#38
12-12-2014, 01:43 PM
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During our rather heated verbal exchange the SM started advancing on me, fists tight and shoulders hunched. It's a classic physical manifestation of the body preparing to fight. I saw this. I told him in my cop voice that it would be a bad idea for him to carry through with what he was thinking. He thought so too. Our conversation ended at that point.
as for the estimate, a verbal agreement is still good where I live. For most of us anyway.
as for the estimate, a verbal agreement is still good where I live. For most of us anyway.
#39
12-12-2014, 02:31 PM
During our rather heated verbal exchange the SM started advancing on me, fists tight and shoulders hunched. It's a classic physical manifestation of the body preparing to fight. I saw this. I told him in my cop voice that it would be a bad idea for him to carry through with what he was thinking. He thought so too. Our conversation ended at that point.
as for the estimate, a verbal agreement is still good where I live. For most of us anyway.
as for the estimate, a verbal agreement is still good where I live. For most of us anyway.
Right on, didn't catch that in the op....would have been pissed too!!!
Verbal agreements are always good.....until they're not. Lol!!
#40
12-12-2014, 04:09 PM
Cargo Master
Howdy folks up here in small town Ontario Canada. Have a 2012 6.7 bought the maintenance package FFMP when I bought the truck expensive $3200. All maintenance is covered. So i took it into Polito Ford where they always do my service. They booked an appt and I promptly forgot. Showed up the next day apologized tried to get another one and was told it would be a week and a half. Seeing i was getting close to the mileage for an oil change I took it to another dealer same town one mile away. From what I am now learning now the only thing they did was to change the oil and filter (hopefully) and billed Ford for a complete service. When I noticed they had put the wrong oil into the truck I was pissed. Its cold up here and they put in 15w40. After a week and dropping temps I took it back to the original dealer Polito and told them to do another service. In the meantime Ford sent me a survey for Monyes Ford. I filled it out saying how dissatisfied I was . Service manager from Moynes called and lost his headgasket saying it was the worst servey they had . He tries to tell me they dont add DEF fluid because he had customer complaints about adding def. no windshield washer fluid nothing Still not finished with Ford yet. Dying to find out what this dealership billed to Ford for this service. Sounds like a little fraud happening here at my expence
Once my maint plan is done it won't be going to the dealer for oil changes/brakes/bulbs/def/whatever. It'll get done in the driveway.
#41
12-13-2014, 10:06 AM
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I'll give the short version as I'm still simmering, but Fred Grande Ford in Richmond, MI will NEVER see my money again.
Been going to this one for regular service since it's close to home. Yes, I know, do my own service work, yada yada, but after doing the oil/filter change for the first time on my truck I decided I didn't like doing it anymore so there. Anyway; I go in for another oil/filter change and get new brake pads put in. Show up at 8am like I'm told so they can get to it "right away".
:
1030am rolls around and the truck's out front and I'm looking over the bill. $355 for oil/filter and pad change?!!? waitaminute...look closer and I see I'm charged 3 hours for labor on the brake pad change..? huh? "Excuse me, we have a problem here.." Service writer comes over, takes the bill and walks into the F&I corral to talk to the cashier. Service Manager comes over and tells me "yea, that's right, mechanic charged you the book recommended flat rate."
No where on my bill does it say anything about a flat rate, nor was I informed of this billing procedure when I called yesterday or rolled in this morning. I understand the concept of the flat rate, it's a money maker for the stealership in the long run, HOWEVER; I got charged 3hrs for LABOR. Trying to explain the difference to the SM was like living through a bad drug trip. He wouldn't see the how his reality didn't match up to the real world.
So, after pointing out to him, on the bill they wrote me, where it said "labor" and not "flat rate", he got his head out of the sand and adjusted the bill to match the real time of work. But that's not the point of this
; Why do I have to practically stand on your head to get you to see the error? And, why is it so hard to defer to the customer when you are clearly in error? It's not like I was a complete stranger, they've worked on my truck twice before. Those bills didn't have flat rate charges on them either (I checked).
Fred Grande Ford won't be seeing me ever again. Guess I'll be investing in a 4-ton truck jack...
Been going to this one for regular service since it's close to home. Yes, I know, do my own service work, yada yada, but after doing the oil/filter change for the first time on my truck I decided I didn't like doing it anymore so there. Anyway; I go in for another oil/filter change and get new brake pads put in. Show up at 8am like I'm told so they can get to it "right away".
: 1030am rolls around and the truck's out front and I'm looking over the bill. $355 for oil/filter and pad change?!!? waitaminute...look closer and I see I'm charged 3 hours for labor on the brake pad change..? huh? "Excuse me, we have a problem here.." Service writer comes over, takes the bill and walks into the F&I corral to talk to the cashier. Service Manager comes over and tells me "yea, that's right, mechanic charged you the book recommended flat rate."
No where on my bill does it say anything about a flat rate, nor was I informed of this billing procedure when I called yesterday or rolled in this morning. I understand the concept of the flat rate, it's a money maker for the stealership in the long run, HOWEVER; I got charged 3hrs for LABOR. Trying to explain the difference to the SM was like living through a bad drug trip. He wouldn't see the how his reality didn't match up to the real world.
So, after pointing out to him, on the bill they wrote me, where it said "labor" and not "flat rate", he got his head out of the sand and adjusted the bill to match the real time of work. But that's not the point of this
; Why do I have to practically stand on your head to get you to see the error? And, why is it so hard to defer to the customer when you are clearly in error? It's not like I was a complete stranger, they've worked on my truck twice before. Those bills didn't have flat rate charges on them either (I checked). Fred Grande Ford won't be seeing me ever again. Guess I'll be investing in a 4-ton truck jack...
#42
12-13-2014, 03:43 PM
Flat rate is not necessarily for consumer protections.
Flat rate is driven by the manufacturers to limit their costs.
And how the manufacturer comes up with the times is a science in itself.
My comment previously about 1+2 hours sounding right doesn't mean that I agree with it. Only that those 2 numbers are common billing hours for the two labor charges.
Front pads on most vehicles (my truck being the gross exception) shouldn't take more then 30 minutes start to finish for most techs. And that includes finding the car in the lot and the test drive.
There is some good reading here with the flat rate industry
The Truth About Auto Repair
Flat rate is driven by the manufacturers to limit their costs.
And how the manufacturer comes up with the times is a science in itself.
My comment previously about 1+2 hours sounding right doesn't mean that I agree with it. Only that those 2 numbers are common billing hours for the two labor charges.
Front pads on most vehicles (my truck being the gross exception) shouldn't take more then 30 minutes start to finish for most techs. And that includes finding the car in the lot and the test drive.
There is some good reading here with the flat rate industry
The Truth About Auto Repair
#43
12-14-2014, 01:13 AM
I only have one question.
When I drop my truck of for work, I always ask for an estimate and then they typically give me a piece of paper that they have to call me if it exceeds a certain amount.
This even happened to me in Michigan when my batteries died and I had to get the replaced. I did it at the dealer too. (cheaper and I wanted a warranty that worked in Alaska)
When I drop my truck of for work, I always ask for an estimate and then they typically give me a piece of paper that they have to call me if it exceeds a certain amount.
This even happened to me in Michigan when my batteries died and I had to get the replaced. I did it at the dealer too. (cheaper and I wanted a warranty that worked in Alaska)
#44
12-14-2014, 02:01 PM
Flat rate is not necessarily for consumer protections.
Flat rate is driven by the manufacturers to limit their costs.
And how the manufacturer comes up with the times is a science in itself.
My comment previously about 1+2 hours sounding right doesn't mean that I agree with it. Only that those 2 numbers are common billing hours for the two labor charges.
Front pads on most vehicles (my truck being the gross exception) shouldn't take more then 30 minutes start to finish for most techs. And that includes finding the car in the lot and the test drive.
There is some good reading here with the flat rate industry
The Truth About Auto Repair
Flat rate is driven by the manufacturers to limit their costs.
And how the manufacturer comes up with the times is a science in itself.
My comment previously about 1+2 hours sounding right doesn't mean that I agree with it. Only that those 2 numbers are common billing hours for the two labor charges.
Front pads on most vehicles (my truck being the gross exception) shouldn't take more then 30 minutes start to finish for most techs. And that includes finding the car in the lot and the test drive.
There is some good reading here with the flat rate industry
The Truth About Auto Repair
#45
12-15-2014, 02:11 AM
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...and now a fuel leak..
Noticed the stain on the driveway Friday afternoon. Not very big, about the circumference of my hand. Saturday morning, and now there's visible liquid and the stain has grown larger than foot in diameter. Drop an oil change pan under the tank, and no ****, there's another drop formed and waiting for the go signal. Definitely diesel fuel.
So, all you Ford mechanics, retired mechanics and wielder of tools, is there a reason the shield for the fuel tank have to be removed for a brake job or an oil/filter change? I ask because mine was on the ground when the truck was on the lift.
So, all you Ford mechanics, retired mechanics and wielder of tools, is there a reason the shield for the fuel tank have to be removed for a brake job or an oil/filter change? I ask because mine was on the ground when the truck was on the lift.
